No more Circumsicisons in Germany

[hilaryisinked]

Originally Posted by jessicalev8 I agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wish I could use a thousands !'s because, seriously. I don't get how people can still argue about this. It is the CHILDS BODY and therefore it should be HIS choice.

Yep. I agree too.

Sent from my iPhone using DS Forum

[ktmelody]

Originally Posted by pcjs What you are describing is not a standard bris and should not be used as the standard. Those are the extremist Jews and not the "normal" population. In every religion and culture you will find extremists. I've see a bris (well, more than one) and they are not the big horrible deal that you are making them out to be. They are nice loving ceremony's and the most of the baby's barely or don't cry and afterward its not a big deal. Making it this tragic event is far more emotionally scaring than the procedure itself. Ranting about it and targeting men to feel bad about it is far more emotionally scaring. If you don't agree with it, then don't do it but don't tell people their culture, religion, practices are wrong when you are not a part of that culture and truly understand it. No disrespect intended, but you were raised as a Christian and you may have Jewish blood generations ago but it is clearly not a culture or religion you practice in. I don't agree with a lot of Christian practices, but I don't go around slamming them and telling those they are wrong, when I very much thing they are wrong but its not my life or any concern of mine.

I am not christian btw. And I am not slamming jewish people, I am slamming routine infant circumcision. No amount of Of information could ever convince me that infant circ can be done in a loving way (jewish or not) and I have seen a few Bris' and don't agree. And thanks, but I don't target men about their circ. I don't care if a man is circed or not, I care that a choice about his body was taken away from him and a choice about his religion as well. Thankfully as a woman born in the US I dont have to worry about female circ and I am happy I am afforded that protection, so should little boys.

[aumismommy]

Originally Posted by ktmelody I am not christian btw. And I am not slamming jewish people, I am slamming routine infant circumcision. No amount of Of information could ever convince me that infant circ can be done in a loving way (jewish or not) and I have seen a few Bris' and don't agree. And thanks, but I don't target men about their circ. I don't care if a man is circed or not, I care that a choice about his body was taken away from him and a choice about his religion as well. Thankfully as a woman born in the US I dont have to worry about female circ and I am happy I am afforded that protection, so should little boys.

Couldn't agree with you more. It's not about religion it's simply that a group of people want to have the right to do something to children that is the child's right in the first place to choose. Whomever the group it is wrong, race, religion, nationality, whatever, I don't need to understand the religion to know that it is not ok with me to have ANY child cut without any medical necessity. Girl or boy children deserve to have nothing cut off their bodies.

[Joyful Tie Dyes]

Originally Posted by pcjs Yes you are by the way you stated what you stated. What a shame for those who do it for religious or medical reasons. Its a personal choice and should be left as a personal choice.

If you bothered to read the article you'd know that for medical reasons it is still legal. And I agree with you 100% it SHOULD be left as a personal choice. The person with the penis should be able to make HIS own choice.

[Celeste]

Originally Posted by mjg2043 Yes you are correct in what I meant. I just don't support mass bans on a governmental level. Last I checked we live in the United States (well I do). That being said we are going to operate differently than Germany. If this works in Germany - great. However, I appreciate my constitutional rights for how I live being protected which means no mass bans or mandates on personal choices. My DDs ears are pierced, I have tattoos, my DS is circ'ed. These are my choices. Don't like them? Don't do them. That is the beauty of choice and not being forced into practices by the current zealots of the day. Additionally I bet there are a whole lot of people here who don't circ and would support a ban, but use the religious exemption when they send their non-vaccinated kids to school and are appalled they don't have a choice. Can't have your argument both ways.

Very well said.

[KatrinaLoves]

Originally Posted by mjg2043 Yes you are correct in what I meant. I just don't support mass bans on a governmental level. Last I checked we live in the United States (well I do). That being said we are going to operate differently than Germany. If this works in Germany - great. However, I appreciate my constitutional rights for how I live being protected which means no mass bans or mandates on personal choices. My DDs ears are pierced, I have tattoos, my DS is circ'ed. These are my choices. Don't like them? Don't do them. That is the beauty of choice and not being forced into practices by the current zealots of the day. Additionally I bet there are a whole lot of people here who don't circ and would support a ban, but use the religious exemption when they send their non-vaccinated kids to school and are appalled they don't have a choice. Can't have your argument both ways.

:applaud:

We didnt circ our sons because we wanted them to choose for themselves. Ultimately, I felt it was a mean thing to do to them for aesthetic reasons. That choice, however, was one for my husband and I to make.

As a Christian, I have no religious reason to have the procedure performed on my children as Mosaic law does not apply to me. However, I worship the same God, and I could never bring myself to believe something that God once commanded every last one of his people to do would ever be permanently harmful or damaging to that individual's health, happiness, and prosperity.
Though not relevant to atheists and non-Christians, this is a point which baffles me when fellow Christians rail against Jews circumcising. I just can't wrap my mind around their logic.


I do get annoyed when many of my friends circumcise their children after doing no research, and having no real reason to do it other than "why not?".
Those that make an informed decision to circ, however, don't bother me one bit. I was informed as much as even the most extreme of intactivists, and we still considered having the procedure done.
involving the government in such personal and religious matters is dangerous.

I got a tattoo at the age of 15. As with a PP, it was in honor of my grandfather. My mother took me, and although the tattoo artist agreed... It was technically illegal in Washington state.
It was a STUPID thing for my mother to allow, but do I think it should remain outlawed? NO.


Mostly though, nothing truly baffles me more than Christians believing that it's barbaric, abusive, and destructive, and that Jews shouldn't have the right to do it. :headscratch.
Do they believe it wasn't truly a command from God? Or perhaps that He was mistaken at the time, or that he's a god who wanted his people to suffer the procedure for no good reason other than kicks and giggles because He was/is a cruel God?

I'll never understand.

[dancermommy1]

What baffles me is that people keep posting this topic with the comment "not to start a debate, but..."

Any time this topic surfaces it results in debate. There's nothing wrong with that, really, but let's not be all coy about it when posting the topic.

[mjg2043]

Originally Posted by dancermommy1 What baffles me is that people keep posting this topic with the comment "not to start a debate, but..." Any time this topic surfaces it results in debate. There's nothing wrong with that, really, but let's not be all coy about it when posting the topic.

Absolutely...

Edited by ktmelody for language

[addicteddad]

Originally Posted by pcjs Many people would also argue that circ. does not alter any functioning either.

SO, then we would go to the evidence to see if there is any real justification for holding such a position.

Its a very personal choice and those that don't want it, should not do it but they should respect other people's choices, especially religious and cultural ones as they/you, want yours respected too.

Which is why intactivist people are the ones arguing for choice. The rights of the person with the penis to make an informed choice at an appropriate age. Not the rights of a parent to decide that because of their chosen faith to enforce some ritual amputation on their child.

I don't know anyone that its been an issue for but then again, I don't take random polls or talk about it outside this message board. No man I know cares either way.

Well, that settles it then doesn't it.

Cultural and religion play a big part in decisions people make. Once we stop respecting others choices, then what? Well, I guess we'll find out soon enough as that is what our country is clearly going toward.

Yes, respecting the rights of the child to have as little to no permanent modification done to their body as is possible so that they can be given such choices when they are adults. Why is this such a hard concept to grasp? Why is it that so many people view children as property or little dolls?

[jen_batten]

Originally Posted by mjg2043 Yes you are correct in what I meant. I just don't support mass bans on a governmental level. Last I checked we live in the United States (well I do). That being said we are going to operate differently than Germany. If this works in Germany - great. However, I appreciate my constitutional rights for how I live being protected which means no mass bans or mandates on personal choices. My DDs ears are pierced, I have tattoos, my DS is circ'ed. These are my choices. Don't like them? Don't do them. That is the beauty of choice and not being forced into practices by the current zealots of the day. Additionally I bet there are a whole lot of people here who don't circ and would support a ban, but use the religious exemption when they send their non-vaccinated kids to school and are appalled they don't have a choice. Can't have your argument both ways.

Yes! Choices! That's what I want! And what I have, for right now... Mass governmental banning is a scary issue that I don't support, even if I don't agree with the issue.