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Old 07-02-2012, 02:51 PM   #11
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Re: Can spanking cause mental illness

The term used is link. That is not cause. It just means that the incidence of physical punishment is higher in populations of mentally ill. I want to know whether physical punishment (as defined, which was ridiculously broad IMO) is a result of these disorders or somehow part of the cause. I know that many children who are predisposed to mental illness often suffer from behavioral disorders. The more intense the behavior issue, the more likely parents are to fall into physical punishment (particularly off the cuff, reflex type punishments) than parents of your NT kid is.

It's like saying that ADHD is caused by video game usage. Well, no. It's caused by brain function differences and this brain difference causes the ADHD brain to seek out seriously stimulating things like video games to enhance the feeling of concentration.

ETA: I'm with dancermommy1 in being interested in the actual study. There's a lot of spin in the article all the way down to the reference to the lead author of it. Most honest to goodness studies don't end with such conclusive statements:

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The new study's lead author, Tracie Afifi, said she believes that physical punishment should not be used on children of any age and that positive parenting strategies should instead be encouraged.
They tend to use words like "link" or "correlation" and then recommend furthur study unless they can back up their statements with seriously solid numbers-which aren't referenced anywhere in the article.

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Old 07-02-2012, 02:55 PM   #12
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Re: Can spanking cause mental illness

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Originally Posted by Joyful Tie Dyes View Post
I don't know about slapping and pushing but spanking IS hitting. You hit the child on the butt.
A sprinkle and a downpour are both water falling from the sky, but that doesn't make them the same. Swiss and cheddar are both forms of cheese, but that doesn't make them the same. A 4 door sedan and an 18 wheeler are both vehicles, but that doesn't make them the same. Anti-spankers can continue to cry out that "hitting" and "spanking" are exactly the same and that there's absolutely no difference what so ever...but that doesn't make it any more true than cloth diapers and sposie diapers being exactly the same.
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Old 07-02-2012, 02:58 PM   #13
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Re: Can spanking cause mental illness

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Originally Posted by Joyful Tie Dyes View Post
http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/02/health...html?hpt=hp_t2

Interesting article discussing studies about whether spanking in the absence of abuse may cause mental illnesses.

"Researchers from Canada found that physical punishment (such as slapping, hitting, pushing and shoving) -- even without child neglect or physical, sexual or emotional abuse -- was linked to mood disorders, anxiety disorders, substance abuse and personality disorders."

What do you think?
First, I didn't read the article. Second, my short answer would be yes, spanking can cause mental illness. But that alone is very misleading. Withholding food, or forcing your kid to eat their food can also cause long term mental issues. Many things can. Also, slapping, pushing and shoving are not the same as spanking. You can call spanking hitting if you like, but the others are not spanking. I don't think it's possible to have those things without physical and emotional abuse. I also think that just spanking (leaving out the shoving and whatnot) is capable of causeing mental abuse--depending on how it is done. We make it a point to never spank in anger. I think that is generally abusive as well. But just spanking as *I* personally believe it is intended to be, I don't think causes any mental issues, and actually may save the kids from some. I also see this thread getting pretty ugly pretty fast, and I'm already dreading it.
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:03 PM   #14
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Re: Can spanking cause mental illness

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Originally Posted by happysmileylady View Post
Well, I don't think that "slapping, hitting, pushing, and shoving" are really the same thing as spanking AT ALL. To me, that's like saying letting a kid scream in a room for 5 hours by himself is the same thing as "5 in/5 out" CIO (for lack of a better term.) Or that making a kid stand in the closet for an hour is the same thing as a Supernanny style time out. I don't really think that slapping and pushing and so on even really qualifies as a punishment. It's not like someone is going to say to a kid "if you do set the table in the next 2 minutes I am going to shove you around." With a true punishment of any sort, it's a direct consequence for a particular behavior. If you do XYZ unacceptable behavior, then ABC punishment will happen. You give a warning, child repeats unacceptable behavior, consequence that child was warned about is carried out. That's how punishment actually works. Slapping, pushing etc, just don't fit that criteria.
I keep quoting you... we would maybe be really good friends.
or annoy eachother.

lol

anyways.. I agree with this.

spanking is not the same as physical abuse. I have read books (123 Magic) that say that a parent spanks in anger as a parental temper tantrum and that's just ridiculous. My parents didn't spank me as a temper tantrum on their part, it was part of a consequence that often came later after a very long and drawn out conversation about why my behavior was wrong.

I think 'spanking' is completely misunderstood. The same way that CIO seems to mean, to some people, that the person let their baby cry for 3 hours without comfort when in reality they might have let them cry 3-5minutes.

Also, I don't agree with Timeouts as a punishment. People use them completely wrong because the idea has been warped from it's original intent. http://theattachedfamily.com/membersonly/?p=2455
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:05 PM   #15
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There are more people in this generation with mental illness and 'diagnoses' than any other...and (assumedly) less spanking.

So maybe we need to spank MOAR!!!!! Lol.
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:08 PM   #16
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Re: Can spanking cause mental illness

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Originally Posted by mcpforever View Post
The term used is link. That is not cause. It just means that the incidence of physical punishment is higher in populations of mentally ill. I want to know whether physical punishment (as defined, which was ridiculously broad IMO) is a result of these disorders or somehow part of the cause. I know that many children who are predisposed to mental illness often suffer from behavioral disorders. The more intense the behavior issue, the more likely parents are to fall into physical punishment (particularly off the cuff, reflex type punishments) than parents of your NT kid is.

It's like saying that ADHD is caused by video game usage. Well, no. It's caused by brain function differences and this brain difference causes the ADHD brain to seek out seriously stimulating things like video games to enhance the feeling of concentration.

ETA: I'm with dancermommy1 in being interested in the actual study. There's a lot of spin in the article all the way down to the reference to the lead author of it. Most honest to goodness studies don't end with such conclusive statements:



They tend to use words like "link" or "correlation" and then recommend furthur study unless they can back up their statements with seriously solid numbers-which aren't referenced anywhere in the article.
This is what I was just going to post. There are is such a stigma on having a mental illness already let alone in raising a child with a mental illness do we really need to attempt to place blame on a parent? I remember when people truly believed autism was caused by "refrigerator moms" and there are still people out there who think that. Because of the stigma it is hard for parents to reach out and get help for their children, they want them to be "normal" and who doesn't want that for his/her child. Everyone assumes that they have to have "done something wrong" to have caused what happened to their child even if it was a simple matter of genetics. Adding extra blame will not help these children. It will prevent parents from wanting to get help for their children.

I am bipolar. I was spanked exactly once and I have a hard time believing that that single spanking has anything to do with the fact that I am bipolar. My father is also bipolar, his father was probably bipolar and his mother was clinically depressed.
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:41 PM   #17
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Re: Can spanking cause mental illness

As someone who was spanked by both parents (it was abuse), I FULLY believe that spanking cause mental issues. I have anxiety, panic attacks when seeing my dad (he spanked so hard, we peed our pants), cannot confront anyone, have severe phobias about talking bad things with someone and more that I cannot think of right now.

My parents took physical discipline to a whole new level. Using wooden spoons, ping pong paddles, belts, anything they could get their hands on. And it was for the smallest infractions too. What is sad is they said that we got it less than they did as kids. And I decided that I would NEVER beat my kids. I broke the cycle and I am so proud. My kids actually like me and don't fear me. I must say that it is nice to know that my kids don't scatter in fear that I am going to beat them.
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:48 PM   #18
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I'd like to see the actual research article. But they do state spanking in the absence of abuse, which to me indicates a spanking, not something strong enough to be a true hit, though many parents spank pretty darn hard.

Frankly, I don't think it would make much difference if there were definitive research stating higher rates of anything from mental illness to antisocial behavior to suicide in children who were spanked, people would still spank. At it's root it appears to me to be a very obvious way of enforcing your power over another person, and many mainstream parenting theories seem to lean toward showing your children 'who is in charge' and demanding appropriate behavior. Not saying that's necessarily good or bad, just saying. Though I don't personally endorse spanking, I have done it. It seems the least effective method to use on my children for long term change, but it is pretty effective at getting their attention for the short term.

I don't think the argument 'we were all spanked and we're fine' holds any water. Many people also grew up without carseats, without vaccinations, without education, etc., and of course the ones we talked to 'survived'. The ones who didn't survive intact aren't around to talk about it. Just because something was done in the past doesn't necessarily mean it should continue.
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:49 PM   #19
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Re: Can spanking cause mental illness

Although I believe that physical abuse is completely wrong, I also think people are always looking for excuses for why people turn out they way they are. If spanking isn't found to cause some mental disorders than as sure as the day is long something else will. Our current society doesn't accept things for being just because.
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:53 PM   #20
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Re: Can spanking cause mental illness

Slapping, pushing shoving I believe, yes. That's abuse. I don't think hitting a kid on the bottom with your hand (not an object) when used as a last resort can cause mental illness. How would someone even go about conducting a study like this? A parent that spanks, hits, shoves, ect. might be more likely to do other things that are probably not great moves for parenting.
That being said, I don't spank. I think it's just a little backwards when we tell our kids time and time again NOT to hit.
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