No tongue tie?

[CountryChicMama]

So after developing some soreness, I saw an LC who said that besides a bad latch she felt what might be a posterior tongue tie. Went to my Ped, who said she wasn't sure, but sent us to an ENT. Saw the ENT just last week and he said he really didn't see a tongue tie or anything that we should be concerned about.

Now this all occurred over a period of about 5-6 weeks. My concern was the soreness, his shallow latch and losing suction/slipping and gagging/choking. He's now 3mo (today) and I wonder whether I should pursue a second opinion or just assume it was developmental. He doesn't choke/gag much, if at all now. I don't notice him slipping much at all either; maybe once or twice during our last nursing. He still has a shallow latch sometimes, particularly during let down, but it's getting better. I still have occasional soreness, but he's begun biting/bearing down with his gums and pulling away (possible teething), so I'm attributing it to that.

We don't have insurance, so I'd hate to have to pay another $150-200 for another ENT to tell me the same thing. Thoughts??

[tibeca]

There is some research out there now that talks about how clipping a tongue tie doesn't always result in any kind of improvement that time wouldn't manage on its own. If things have gotten better, then I wouldn't worry too much.

[lilmomma83]

Yes, it is not an instant fix for everyone. Other things like bodywork and suck training can help. The thing is that there are so many other things that can be negatively impacted by tongue tie.

We traveled out of state to Dr Kotlow for my daughter's revision (her second one), we'd had a local ENT tell us it was too mild to clip and an ENT about 2 hours from us not clip far enough back.

You could wait and see what happens when baby gets teeth, buy, you run the risk of baby not relearning well and/or your milk supply dwindling.

I, am a mom who has been going through this for 7 months...and breastfeeding will probably never be "perfect" but much has improved..however we did not just clip, but are doing suck training, bodywork, and gut healing, as well...I believe everything has helped. I also see lasting effects of untreated tongue tie in most members of my family and my husband's, which wad another reason I chose to go through such lengths y to have it fixed.

You might look over Dr Kotlow's site www.kiddsteeth.com to help you make a decision. I would highly recommend the Facebook group "tongue tie babies support group" - you can post pics of your little ones tongue there and will likely get some feedback as well add advice where to go so you don't waste money going to someone who won't help anyway.

Good luck, whatever you do!

[CountryChicMama]

Lilmomma: I was a member of the other FB group, so I probably need to join over there. We've been working w/ my chiro as well (one is experienced in CSTherapy) and we currently eat about a 70-80% Paleo diet (I'm dairy free). May I ask what the effects you see within your family are? I wouldn't know what to look for.

[lilmomma83]

The biggest effect with my siblings is speech...3 of my 8 siblings can hardly be understood at all. My husband has a bit of a lisp, but, also has always had major issues with his sinuses/ears etc....he's had multiple surgeries with no improvement...I just realized a few days so that his tongue tie is pretty tight. I also think he had asleep apnea but he refuses to be tested. Sleep apnea can be caused by a high pallet, which outs caused by tongue tie. My teeth are crowded (again due to high pallet, I expect). My oldest has asthma, likely caused by repeated lung infections as a baby...looking back, that was probably caused by dysphagia, from improper tongue movement while swallowing. My middle child choked on everything but pureed food until about 2 1/2 and had lots of ear infections from reflux (which can be caused by tongue tie)...he's 3 and seems to have some difficulty with speech as well - though not too bad. There are other things I could link too, but, that's the main of it.


Oh yes, a few of my siblings have bad tooth decay as well (can happen because someone with tongue tie has trouble cleaning their teeth with their tongue). My niece also has bad sketch delays (she's 5) and has constant ear infections.

My milk dried up when my middle was only 6 months old.....I never knew why, but, looking back i'm sure it was the tongue titter and his lack of stimulation on my breasts.

So most of that is,"speculation" - but I've read enough that it makes complete sense to me.

[NikiG]

If there is a tie, CST may not "stick" since the TT can cause baby to have tension which will need to be released often.

[jaelynsmommy61607]

This thread is interesting. My first had hers clipped as a newborn(around 2 weeks at the ent). Had a maybe 2 ear infections as a infant/toddler. She only bf 6 months as those two weeks before I pumped and it lead to ep. With my second I thought he needed clipped also. The lc and pedi at the hospital said it was fine. It was mild and it wouldn't help clipping it. He had constant ear infections. We were almost to the point of tubes when they stopped. He bf until 17 months. Now my third is here and my midwife noticed he was chomping rather than sucking. I mentioned his tongue and she agreed it needed to be clipped. She did it at home on our couch it was so simple. His latch was instantly fixed!

[jaelynsmommy61607]

I forgot to add she's a naturopath Dr as well. Is it possible to find one in your area that would be willing to do it for you?

[aumismommy]

It sounds like a tongue tie. I would definitely pursue a second opinion. Can you find another LC that has a lot of experience with ties and an ENT that has experience as well?

Those are all classic explanations of Tt. Even the pulling back while nursing. Bodywork can help a lot (find practitioners that work with babies, otherwise don't bother seeing them).

Is your baby gaining weight? That was a big deal for us to clip his tongue and lip - otherwise we may have waited but he just wasn't gaining well and my supply was all over the place. Each case is different but for us clipping was the best decision - we didn't find his tongue and lip ties until he was 5 months old!!! Once clipped he gained, my supply evened out and he's actually still nursing at 2yo.

You need to know if it is a tongue or lip or both tie not just for breast feeding but for speech, palate formation etc. it's important. If its not a tie then you can move forward with that. If it is then you can find someone to clip it if you decide to do that.

Good luck. Blessings to you and your little one. Our first five months with our son were the hardest times we've had ever in life. It was terrifying. And once we figured it out we all breathed and lived better.

[joyful mother]

Originally Posted by jaelynsmommy61607 This thread is interesting. My first had hers clipped as a newborn(around 2 weeks at the ent). Had a maybe 2 ear infections as a infant/toddler. She only bf 6 months as those two weeks before I pumped and it lead to ep. With my second I thought he needed clipped also. The lc and pedi at the hospital said it was fine. It was mild and it wouldn't help clipping it. He had constant ear infections. We were almost to the point of tubes when they stopped. He bf until 17 months. Now my third is here and my midwife noticed he was chomping rather than sucking. I mentioned his tongue and she agreed it needed to be clipped. She did it at home on our couch it was so simple. His latch was instantly fixed!

My first 2 were fine but my 3rd born was having trouble latching without it just killing. I mentioned it to my midwife at the 3 day appt, first thing she did was look at my daughters tongue and showed us the heart shaped tip, she clipped her and next feeding it felt so much better. Reading all this makes me so thankful for my midwife. When she was having trouble speaking years later we wondered if she should have been clipped just a little more and just looking at her palate and her older sisters palate (she's 10 now) you can see her's is much higher. Very interesting, very glad we said clip it even though it seemed a mild case.