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Old 07-19-2012, 10:07 AM   #61
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Re: I know this has been discussed a million times.

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All I can say is !!! Last night he agreed to watch the Penn and Teller episode with me. Well, that went over really well. NOT!!! He spent the whole time saying dumb things under his breath, rolling his eyes. It was painful to get through, but I thought, "we'll keep watching it just in case something said gets through to him." Well, that didn't happen at all.

Then we got into the mopst heated debate/ arguement we've ever had! until he finally said, "it doesn't matter anyways because if I can't convince you to change your mind. The choice is solely left up to you, and I think it's BS! I lose automatically." (I pointed out if you needed 2 parental consents it's absolutely no different because once again I wouldn't sign)

I told him this isn't about losing or winning, and how am I winning if apparrently you feel like your son is deformed by the end of the day. So, he'll have a dad disgusted by the way he looks. Sounds like I'm winning!

Can I pray this baby comes out a girl?
i know what you are going through my dh is he same way with this issue.

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Old 07-19-2012, 10:14 AM   #62
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Re: I know this has been discussed a million times.

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All I can say is !!! Last night he agreed to watch the Penn and Teller episode with me. Well, that went over really well. NOT!!! He spent the whole time saying dumb things under his breath, rolling his eyes. It was painful to get through, but I thought, "we'll keep watching it just in case something said gets through to him." Well, that didn't happen at all.

Then we got into the mopst heated debate/ arguement we've ever had! until he finally said, "it doesn't matter anyways because if I can't convince you to change your mind. The choice is solely left up to you, and I think it's BS! I lose automatically." (I pointed out if you needed 2 parental consents it's absolutely no different because once again I wouldn't sign)

I told him this isn't about losing or winning, and how am I winning if apparrently you feel like your son is deformed by the end of the day. So, he'll have a dad disgusted by the way he looks. Sounds like I'm winning!

Can I pray this baby comes out a girl?
If you don't want it done, instead of doing the suggestions here which people say are "education" maybe try to back off and just say simply, it isn't something you are comfortable doing and would prefer it not done. Most people will resist the scare approach on most subjects as many people go overboard. Not all circ's are this terrible, painful procedure and most "rational" people understand that so choosing a graphic terrible video to show the worst case isn't the right way to approach some people. When you use strong terms too such as "deformed" when he was circ and he has no issue with it, is going to push him the other way too as you are saying he is deformed and something is wrong with him. Keep it simple and leave out all the suggested debates and just say it isn't something you are ok with and leave it at that.
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Old 07-19-2012, 10:17 AM   #63
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Re: I know this has been discussed a million times.

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Originally Posted by champatlife View Post
All I can say is !!! Last night he agreed to watch the Penn and Teller episode with me. Well, that went over really well. NOT!!! He spent the whole time saying dumb things under his breath, rolling his eyes. It was painful to get through, but I thought, "we'll keep watching it just in case something said gets through to him." Well, that didn't happen at all.

Then we got into the mopst heated debate/ arguement we've ever had! until he finally said, "it doesn't matter anyways because if I can't convince you to change your mind. The choice is solely left up to you, and I think it's BS! I lose automatically." (I pointed out if you needed 2 parental consents it's absolutely no different because once again I wouldn't sign)

I told him this isn't about losing or winning, and how am I winning if apparrently you feel like your son is deformed by the end of the day. So, he'll have a dad disgusted by the way he looks. Sounds like I'm winning!

Can I pray this baby comes out a girl?
That sucks. I'm sorry he is giving you such a hard time about it. But the pp is right, he doesn't lose anything because it's not his penis. If he is absolutely disgusted by your son having a foreskin then he has the rest of his life to argue with him about getting it cut off. If you let your husband make the choice for your son then you have to deal with it but there is nothing that can be done later to repair it.
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Old 07-19-2012, 10:18 AM   #64
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Re: I know this has been discussed a million times.

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Originally Posted by pcjs View Post
If you don't want it done, instead of doing the suggestions here which people say are "education" maybe try to back off and just say simply, it isn't something you are comfortable doing and would prefer it not done. Most people will resist the scare approach on most subjects as many people go overboard. Not all circ's are this terrible, painful procedure and most "rational" people understand that so choosing a graphic terrible video to show the worst case isn't the right way to approach some people. When you use strong terms too such as "deformed" when he was circ and he has no issue with it, is going to push him the other way too as you are saying he is deformed and something is wrong with him. Keep it simple and leave out all the suggested debates and just say it isn't something you are ok with and leave it at that.

Penn and Teller is not a 'graphic terrible video" and honestly if you think watching the video of the actual procedure to be too "graphic and terrible" for a rational person to even watch why on earth would you subject you son to that?

And yes EVERY circ is a painful procedure. There is no way to cut off a body part and heal from it without pain. Especially when that body part is bathed in urine every time the child pees.

It's sad that you don't think people should try and educate their own spouses on the procedure.

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Old 07-19-2012, 10:19 AM   #65
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Re: I know this has been discussed a million times.

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Originally Posted by pcjs View Post
If you don't want it done, instead of doing the suggestions here which people say are "education" maybe try to back off and just say simply, it isn't something you are comfortable doing and would prefer it not done. Most people will resist the scare approach on most subjects as many people go overboard. Not all circ's are this terrible, painful procedure and most "rational" people understand that so choosing a graphic terrible video to show the worst case isn't the right way to approach some people. When you use strong terms too such as "deformed" when he was circ and he has no issue with it, is going to push him the other way too as you are saying he is deformed and something is wrong with him. Keep it simple and leave out all the suggested debates and just say it isn't something you are ok with and leave it at that.
I think she means that her husband feels their son will look deformed is he is left intact, not that she thinks her husband looks deformed.
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Old 07-19-2012, 10:29 AM   #66
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Re: I know this has been discussed a million times.

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When you use strong terms too such as "deformed" when he was circ and he has no issue with it, is going to push him the other way too as you are saying he is deformed and something is wrong with him.
That's not what she said at all. She didn't call her circumcised husband deformed. She said she hates that her husband is going to think of their son's penis as deformed if they leave it intact.
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Old 07-19-2012, 10:32 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Leah52

I think she means that her husband feels their son will look deformed is he is left intact, not that she thinks her husband looks deformed.
Yeah, that's what I read too.

OP, sorry this isn't going well. You're right though, this isn't a win/lose decision. There are pros and cons that need to be discussed and it needs to be mutual because it is something that can't truly be undone. However, I think part of the problem is that by you wanting to leave him intact, DH may think you don't have a positive view of his manhood. He may not admit it, but to say DS is perfect as is, to him may mean his isn't perfect.
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Old 07-19-2012, 10:59 AM   #68
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Re: I know this has been discussed a million times.

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Then we got into the mopst heated debate/ arguement we've ever had! until he finally said, "it doesn't matter anyways because if I can't convince you to change your mind. The choice is solely left up to you, and I think it's BS! I lose automatically." (I pointed out if you needed 2 parental consents it's absolutely no different because once again I wouldn't sign)
I'm about as anti-circ as they come, but when I read this, all I can tell you is that it's probably wise to table the discussion for a while. I know how hard this is, and I know how much you feel like you need closure (BTDT). But Rome wasn't built in a day. He needs time to absorb and process all the information he's received without being bombarded by any more. Otherwise he'll just keep shutting down. This is especially true when you're challenging these deep-seated, lifelong beliefs he's nurtured about a very personal part of himself.

The bolded statement especially stood out. Frankly, it looks like he's too overwhelmed right now to think of this in terms of anything but his own concerns. That's normal, but you have to meet him where he is and try to look at his perspective. Yes, he's fine and happy that he's circumcised, but on some level he's very aware that it was not actually his choice. Now he sees himself as finally having a "choice" (to validate his own status by having his son circumcised) and instead his "choice" is being taken away again. It isn't entirely rational, but neither is the idea that someone removed a perfectly normal, healthy, sexually sensitive part of his body without his permission just because they could.

Let it lie. This has rocked his world and he needs to come to terms with it on his own. A theoretical newborn son is not even on his radar. Don't bring it up again unless you have to, and if it does come up don't focus so hard on swaying him to your side. Just say something like, "All men deserve to choose how their bodies look and function as long as there is no disease or abnormality that requires treatment. This isn't about what I want or what you want, or whose way is better. It's about letting our son decide what HE wants."

It's simple and impossible to misunderstand, but it shifts the focus off of him and onto your baby. In the meantime, I hope your experience will be like mine. My DH was also VERY resistant, and the more I pushed the worse it got. It was only when I backed off that he agreed we wouldn't circ any boys we had. 10 years later, he is our intact son's biggest champion.
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Old 07-19-2012, 11:04 AM   #69
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Re: I know this has been discussed a million times.

I agree with a lot of what you say except that the child is not theoretical, he is a boy and due in a couple of months so a decision must be mad.
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Old 07-19-2012, 11:15 AM   #70
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Re: I know this has been discussed a million times.

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Yeah, that's what I read too.

OP, sorry this isn't going well. You're right though, this isn't a win/lose decision. There are pros and cons that need to be discussed and it needs to be mutual because it is something that can't truly be undone. However, I think part of the problem is that by you wanting to leave him intact, DH may think you don't have a positive view of his manhood. He may not admit it, but to say DS is perfect as is, to him may mean his isn't perfect.
Yes, my husband is the one who thinks our son being whole is "gross" "doesn't look right" "isn't normal" (he actually never used the word deformed, but basically that is what he is saying. He told me "if you won't do it, I won't change his diaper". So, it's apparrent he has an extreme distaste for it.

I'm not some crazy over the top, shoving my opinion down his throat. "you're wrong, I'm right" person. I enjoy my husband just fine. I don't think his mom (my mom, etc) did anything wrong, I don't think he's missing something, but education brings about change, what we know now, and the access to information is easier than it was 27 years ago. I choose to research everything involving my children, some parents don't, does it mean the research always changes my viewpoint no (which is understandable that it won't change my husbands either)

I've mentioned if my son wanted it done, it can be done, and my husband says, "but then we'll have to pay for it"--- so what? "well, then why not get it done while our insurance will pay for it." Because it will be his choice, "well, we make choices for our children all the time, why not this one." really we could go around in a circle all day long.

. I don't want my husband to think something is wrong with something that him and I created together, but I don't think I'm being selfish not wanting it done.
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