Questions about this quote

[Kätzchen]

Originally Posted by mibarra But there ARE 'nursing nazis'. People who look down their nose at people who formula feed, people who treat BFing like an extreme religion or cult, almost. I have seen women on this very site criticized and belittled for formula feeding, told in no uncertain terms that they are terrible mothers irrevocably damaging the health of their babies. Of course, the percentage of these type of women within BFers is very small, but it's the extreme minority that people remember. All it takes is one superior, insensitive BFer coming down on you to realize that there is such a thing. I have 3 friends with health issues that do not directly impact their ability to BF a baby, but the strain on their bodies causes them exhaustion and fatigue and delayed recovery from births (2 of whom are unable to give vaginal birth due to the risk of their own death). They choose to formula feed because it makes them a functional human being, instead of a bleary eyed, half sick zombie. All 3 of them have been liiterally verbally attacked by BFers who accuse them of not trying, not caring, not doing enough for their babies. That makes me sad. It does happen.

To me, formula is just not an option. I live like it doesn't exist, yes, it is vile, disgusting, I received a can in the mail and literally wretched from the smell when I opened it. Breast milk, is always best for babies. Excuses, as harsh as that sounds, do not make breast milk less nutritious. Formula is an imitation human milk, it's compiled out of ingredients that are heavily processed and do not digest properly, why should it be considered on par with what is perfect for baby? I have a special needs child that would have never thrived on formula. I worked my butt off making sure her nutritional needs were met, heck yes I am proud. It's not hard to formula feed. Not even if you are considered poor. I am a hardcore supporter of breast feeding. I won't even touch the term "Nazi", I can't roll my eyes hard enough here. I should never feel ashamed of my pride. I won't ever feel proud of someone for formula feeding, why should I? Should I start congratulating people for using carseats? Washing their hands? I don't get why I am not allowed to think formula is disgusting, if not only to avoid hurting someone's feelings. ...and no, I don't tell people it's disgusting everyday, just in this thread as I see relevant. I say this as someone who can't even smell a somewhat open can of the stuff without getting physically ill. I would be ashamed of myself for feeding that to my child if I had a choice*.

[Computermama]

Originally Posted by mibarra But there ARE 'nursing nazis'. People who look down their nose at people who formula feed, people who treat BFing like an extreme religion or cult, almost. I have seen women on this very site criticized and belittled for formula feeding, told in no uncertain terms that they are terrible mothers irrevocably damaging the health of their babies. Of course, the percentage of these type of women within BFers is very small, but it's the extreme minority that people remember. All it takes is one superior, insensitive BFer coming down on you to realize that there is such a thing. I have 3 friends with health issues that do not directly impact their ability to BF a baby, but the strain on their bodies causes them exhaustion and fatigue and delayed recovery from births (2 of whom are unable to give vaginal birth due to the risk of their own death). They choose to formula feed because it makes them a functional human being, instead of a bleary eyed, half sick zombie. All 3 of them have been liiterally verbally attacked by BFers who accuse them of not trying, not caring, not doing enough for their babies. That makes me sad. It does happen.

Yes there are and I've run into them. But honestly that's not what this quote is about. The quote is about the fact that because hospitals are being funded by formula companies that they'd push formula feeding on new moms, especially during that first few days when breastfeeding can be so important, but we all know can be so hard at first. This can directly sabotage a mom's chances of successfully breastfeeding, catching her in a moment of weakness when she's feeling insecure about her ability to breastfeed.

There's also the tendency for formula feeding moms, particularly when they havn't made peace with the fact that they formula feed yet, to be oversensitive about any comment on breastfeeding or how they feed their child. Don't tell me it doesn't happen, I formula fed my oldest, and I was oversensitive about it for quite a while. When you're feeling guilty, even if switching to formula was the right decision in that place and time, it can seem like everyone who even mentions breastfeeding is against you. I'm not saying that lactavists who take the title too far to the point of being called nazis don't exist, they do, but sometimes as a FF mom we see them around every corner because we're looking for them.

Personally everyone who questioned my decision to FF I dared to walk into any kindergarten classroom and point out the kids who were formula fed. Fact is, except in rare extreme cases, you can't. While I love that I can breast feed this child, my oldest thrived on formula. Heck, my sister and I were both formula fed children and we're fine too. Doesn't mean that breastmilk isn't better for babies, it is, but formula isn't poison.

[Computermama]

Originally Posted by Kätzchen To me, formula is just not an option. I live like it doesn't exist, yes, it is vile, disgusting, I received a can in the mail and literally wretched from the smell when I opened it. Breast milk, is always best for babies. Excuses, as harsh as that sounds, do not make breast milk less nutritious. Formula is an imitation human milk, it's compiled out of ingredients that are heavily processed and do not digest properly, why should it be considered on par with what is perfect for baby? I have a special needs child that would have never thrived on formula. I worked my butt off making sure her nutritional needs were met, heck yes I am proud. It's not hard to formula feed. Not even if you are considered poor. I am a hardcore supporter of breast feeding. I won't even touch the term "Nazi", I can't roll my eyes hard enough here. I should never feel ashamed of my pride. I won't ever feel proud of someone for formula feeding, why should I? Should I start congratulating people for using carseats? Washing their hands? I don't get why I am not allowed to think formula is disgusting, if not only to avoid hurting someone's feelings. ...and no, I don't tell people it's disgusting everyday, just in this thread as I see relevant. I say this as someone who can't even smell a somewhat open can of the stuff without getting physically ill. I would be ashamed of myself for feeding that to my child if I had a choice*.

But that's the problem. In many cases, moms get backed into a corner and don't really get choices. When people are pushing formula on you from day one, and support for breastfeeding is slender or non existant, you get more women formula feeding their children because they simply can't figure out how to do differently. Sure, if you're one of those moms who never really has any trouble breastfeeding it doesn't matter if there's little support for breastfeeding, but if you're one of those moms who's start at nursing is difficult, like mine was with my oldest, and what "support" there is that's obvious for nursing tells you that there doesn't appear to be a problem, yet you're going blind absolutely every time you latch baby on, eventually you cave and make the kid a bottle.

And we go right back to the original post. The quote is there because there's a movement to keep formula from being pushed in the hospitals so that more women can breastfeed. At least that's the theory. Really, eliminating formula from the hospital only works if the hospital makes a concerted effort on top of removing formula from the mix to support breastfeeding. Have LCs available to talk to every mom and make repeated visits to those who are having issues, have nurses who are really supportive of nursing, pumps available to help mom build supply if needed etc. The first hospital I birthed at had a contract with similac. How do I know? Because I had formula pushed on me there twice - once when I birthed DD1 and once when DD2 was admitted at 5 days old. The second hospital I birthed at may have had a contract with a formula company, but I have no idea which one if they were. Why? Because they never once mentioned formula to me. Ever. I said I wanted to nurse, so every conversation I had about feeding my child was talking about that. They didn't even bring up formula to my roommate who's new little guy was tongue tied, they told her where she could get it clipped and found her a pump for the meantime.

Oh and for those of you who don't think BF nazis exist didn't hear the nurse who visited my roommate. She read this poor young mother, who was quite young, single and this was her first baby, the riot act for letting her child sleep rather than wake him to attempt to nurse. Yes she probably should have woken the baby, but she didn't know and that kind of dressing down was completely uncalled for. I sat with her for about an hour afterwards trying to help boost her self esteem after that. Poor girl. I felt so bad for her.

[JustSomeChickVee]

Originally Posted by nonipie I agree with the quote. Realistically an OVERWHELMING majority of people in the U.S formula feed. I mean it's not even close. So I really tire of the whole 'nursing nazi' business because it's so silly and incorrect. BFers are in the extreme minority. Thse who BF past 6 months make up a very, very small percentage. So why do they care and what are they worried about? If you need to or want to feed your LO formula I simply do not care but provide for it yourself then. There are lots of ways to get free or subsidized formula. The hospital is under no obligation to provide.

I agree. I recently got into an argument with a "friend" regarding the whole NYC thing. She FFed from birth (because she preferred to smoke pot than BF, by her own admission.) She feels that she is not obligated to provide her own formula because "the hospital has to feed its patients." I don't see what makes her, or any other woman demanding that formula be provided by hospitals, so entitled.

If you want to FF from birth without medical indication, fine. I don't agree with that decision at all, but there is nothing I can really do about it. But definitely don't feel that you are entitled to free formula!

[mibarra]

Originally Posted by Kätzchen To me, formula is just not an option. I live like it doesn't exist, yes, it is vile, disgusting, I received a can in the mail and literally wretched from the smell when I opened it. Breast milk, is always best for babies. Excuses, as harsh as that sounds, do not make breast milk less nutritious. Formula is an imitation human milk, it's compiled out of ingredients that are heavily processed and do not digest properly, why should it be considered on par with what is perfect for baby? I have a special needs child that would have never thrived on formula. I worked my butt off making sure her nutritional needs were met, heck yes I am proud. It's not hard to formula feed. Not even if you are considered poor. I am a hardcore supporter of breast feeding. I won't even touch the term "Nazi", I can't roll my eyes hard enough here. I should never feel ashamed of my pride. I won't ever feel proud of someone for formula feeding, why should I? Should I start congratulating people for using carseats? Washing their hands? I don't get why I am not allowed to think formula is disgusting, if not only to avoid hurting someone's feelings. ...and no, I don't tell people it's disgusting everyday, just in this thread as I see relevant. I say this as someone who can't even smell a somewhat open can of the stuff without getting physically ill. I would be ashamed of myself for feeding that to my child if I had a choice*.

You are allowed to think that of course. And promoting breastfeeding does not in and of itself make someone a 'nursing nazi'. What is not ok is to go around telling formulas feeders (and I did FF my 1st BTW) that they are terrible parents who should be ashamed of themselves for their horrible choices and filling their baby with that vile stuff. You worked hard to BF your child. That's awesome. Of course you should be proud, and that's ok. But it doesn't make you better than everyone else. I'm not really sure what you're trying to say about carseats and handwashing, but if I see someone using a carseat incorrectly (and I have the opportunity) I approach them in a non confrontational way and gently educate them on the proper use. I don't start verbally berating them for their utter idiocy and acting superior.

The difference to me is not the belief for or against BFing, but the approach. You can chose to be rude and condescending towards FF mamas, or attempt to gently educate them with caring and compassion to make sure they fully understand the choices they make for their baby. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar, is all I'm saying. And we could all use more compassion and support on the difficult journey of motherhood.

[keen1981]

Originally Posted by Dr.HeathenFaerie .So I am in some UK and other overseas (not American) pregnancy groups and over seas this (below quote) seems to be a pretty normal thing. I have seen some women say hospitals over there don't even provide things like diapers,wipes,maternity pads,baby blankets etc.... So anyways what do you think? Is the US just behind the times or do you think hospitals should provide formula,diapers,wipes,maternity pads,baby blankets etc... "Nobody is preventing anyone from choosing how they will feed their baby. It is not the obligation of the hospital to provide new mothers with formula. You bring your own milk to the hospital, either in your breasts or bring your formula. The term "boob Nazis" is so repulsive. How can one compare what the Nazis did to those who are only trying to help mothers who choose to breastfeed their babies? "

I love that quote. I agree. Completely. I also think nursing nazi's as people call them are often amazing nurses to other people. It is not always the nurse but the mother herself and her confidence levels. Not always. But that nickname really irks me. During my time in the hospital helping mothers nurse some were very very very disinterested. And would tell their friend (standing next to them) I am trying so hard! It's just not working. When they never actually tried to put baby to breast, even with our assistance. It taught me a lot about the nursing mom. It's not a blanket statement I am making. So no one get in a huff. But it's a real experience I had. Over and over. It was easier to say 'I tried so hard ' than I just want to do formula. Our resources were wasted on moms who had NO desire to nurse but asked for us to come. As a show that they 'tried'. Sad

I have actually never seem or heard any LC, LCE, or IBCLE degrade anyone for formula use. My experience has been that they are 'cool' moving on to next mom. Resources are short. And having the list of moms who want the help, get it.

But I actually had some horrid nurses. They never counseled me on nursing but were rude to me about other things. Lol. I needed to be dressed nursing. Was one thing. It really made me feel insecure as a young mother. So idk. I think nursing is a very very personal thing and people immediately get very defensive if they feel their choices are threatened.

Honestly, if you choose to FF then state it from the beginning and break some balls if people are rude about it. It's not acceptable and it's no different than anything else. If you feel mistreated, speak up. At that exact moment. Ask for a new nurse. I wish I had been strong enough to back when I had my son

[MadeofStarStuff]

I hate the term "nazi" for anything. It's a ridiculous comparison. No one is gassing people due to their genes. I wish people would stop it with that term. Call them hateful bf supporters if you must. I tend to think any mama who makes another feel shamed should just be called "mean", regardless of the topic. I'm a "live and let live" person though.

I feel that breastfeeding is the only choice, barring a true, diagnosed medical condition. As such, I think hospitals should absolutely stop supplying formula unless medically indicated, or moms can bring their own. I agree with the quote. I would not say anything negative to a mom who chooses to FF for non-medical reasons unless specifically asked my opinion (although I would THINK negatively, it's true).

Hospitals should up their LCs, skin to skin policies, especially after c-section, etc. WIC needs to get revamped, working to get moms on the 100% FREE milk--breastmilk, with formula support as needed or chosen after a ton of BF education.

By supporting breastfeeding more in our programs/hospitals, more moms will see it as the norm, which it should be.

[keen1981]

Originally Posted by staceray7 I hate the term "nazi" for anything. It's a ridiculous comparison. No one is gassing people due to their genes. I wish people would stop it with that term. Call them hateful bf supporters if you must. I tend to think any mama who makes another feel shamed should just be called "mean", regardless of the topic. I'm a "live and let live" person though. I feel that breastfeeding is the only choice, barring a true, diagnosed medical condition. As such, I think hospitals should absolutely stop supplying formula unless medically indicated, or moms can bring their own. I agree with the quote. I would not say anything negative to a mom who chooses to FF for non-medical reasons unless specifically asked my opinion (although I would THINK negatively, it's true). Hospitals should up their LCs, skin to skin policies, especially after c-section, etc. WIC needs to get revamped, working to get moms on the 100% FREE milk--breastmilk, with formula support as needed or chosen after a ton of BF education. By supporting breastfeeding more in our programs/hospitals, more moms will see it as the norm, which it should be.

Unfortunately formula companies lobby hard to stay in hospitals. And that's a lot of $$$$. Lc's need to be paid. So it's a budget issue.

[nonipie]

Originally Posted by mibarra But there ARE 'nursing nazis'. People who look down their nose at people who formula feed, people who treat BFing like an extreme religion or cult, almost. I have seen women on this very site criticized and belittled for formula feeding, told in no uncertain terms that they are terrible mothers irrevocably damaging the health of their babies. Of course, the percentage of these type of women within BFers is very small, but it's the extreme minority that people remember. All it takes is one superior, insensitive BFer coming down on you to realize that there is such a thing. I have 3 friends with health issues that do not directly impact their ability to BF a baby, but the strain on their bodies causes them exhaustion and fatigue and delayed recovery from births (2 of whom are unable to give vaginal birth due to the risk of their own death). They choose to formula feed because it makes them a functional human being, instead of a bleary eyed, half sick zombie. All 3 of them have been liiterally verbally attacked by BFers who accuse them of not trying, not caring, not doing enough for their babies. That makes me sad. It does happen.

Of course there are BFing supporters that get overzealous. There are extremists on every side. No one is condoning that. What does that have to do with anything though The quote was about what hospitals should or should not be required to provide. My point was that you are free to choose how to feed your child but forgive me if I do not get all worked up over the millions and millions of formula feeders that feel pressured by the tiny minority of BFers. We sure get around don't we? Who on earth is making it difficult to formula feed? How hard is it to find bottles or a place to feed your child in public? Do we need legislation to protect the rights of parents who want to mix powder and water in a public place or at work? Give me a break. The stereotype is overused and statistically improbable given the small amount of BFers. A few loud zealots do not speak for us all. I would never, ever call someone a bad mother for how they choose to feed their baby. A bad mother doesn't feed their baby at all. That does not negate the fact that there are many issues that need to be addressed though.

No one should be made to feel bad for choosing what they feel is best for their child. However I have had people give me a hard time about merely stating that I BF as an attack. Why? Why so defensive? Formula is not going out of style. There is no lack of access to it. They have big business and most of the U.S behind them. I can walk into any supermarket, drug-store, big-box store etc. in America right this second and get formula if I choose. If I can't afford it I can get on WIC and receive formula for my baby. Can I get an electric pump through WIC? Breast shields? A free session with a lactation consultant? I stand behind women who can't BF and I stand behind women who just don't want to BF. What I don't stand behind is people and institutions overtly or subtly sabotaging the efforts of women who might have a chance to BF if they had the proper access to information.

[mibarra]

Originally Posted by nonipie Of course there are BFing supporters that get overzealous. There are extremists on every side. No one is condoning that. What does that have to do with anything though The quote was about what hospitals should or should not be required to provide.

My statement you quoted was not in response to the OP, but another post I quoted where it seemed the poster was saying there was no such thing as extreme BFers because they are the minority anyway. I think sometimes BFers are so used to being attacked by FFers they don't realize the opposite is true, too. That was all.