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Old 09-16-2012, 10:49 PM   #111
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Re: babywise

This Babywise mom nursed 11 months, 13.5 months and 15 months for each on my guys. My experienced BW besties have all gone 11-16 months as well. But, yes, this "drying up" is definitely a tendency for moms who aren't guarding their milk supply. I guess to some its a lot of work, but its just normal to me. What I do is pump the first 12 weeks: every morning after the first feeding and after one feeding during the day (more if I feel like it) to help establish a great supply. We tend to have 600-1000oz at the end of the 12 weeks in freezer stash. I choose to do a dreamfeed with my littles as long as they will tolerate (9-10 months is pretty common) it right before I hop in bed (even though they have long since been sleeping 11 hours without waking otherwise). If I get sick or experience a drop in supply around AF if she has returned, I will pump once or twice a day immediately following nursing and pop some fenugreek. For the most part, I just make sure to keep a late night nursing/pumping session in there and pump for the first 12 weeks 2x/day and that's it. I just am always mindful of dips or changes in supply. Scheduling doesn't have to kill a BF relationship prematurely, and I'm sorry it sometimes does .

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Old 09-16-2012, 10:51 PM   #112
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Re: babywise

I have only one baby girl so I am not a super experienced mama, but we've found a routine that works for us, but we are flexible (some days she eats/sleeps/plays/cuddles more than other days). . . I haven't read any books or subscribed to one particular philosophy. DD sleeps through the night 99% of the time and is a pretty happy girl. Part of is is pure luck and we are just responsive to her needs (if she cries she needs something, pure and simple). I'm sure there are things we do that some "Doctor" out there "invented" (or just put into writing). I think a mama (and a papa's) intuition is their greatest tool. Whatever works for you and your family!!
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Old 09-17-2012, 04:36 AM   #113
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Re: babywise

So basically with out pumping all the BW Moms you know dried up or almost did? To me that shows that, it is a super tricky system. I am so glad I didn't go this way as I would have failed my BF relationship big time. I hated the pump! I have a really rare reaction my LLL leader had to talk to a few leaders to find any one who had even heard of it, for some reason I would get a weiird reaction to the pump and would get headaches and swooning feelings, it made me very sick feeling, it made my hormones go off kilter. But honestly, especially in my case, it seems so foriegn to switch a pump for the baby to keep up your supply.
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Old 09-17-2012, 06:27 AM   #114
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Yeah, I would NOT want to have to be stuck to the pump just to establish a good milk supply. It seems kind of backwards since I'm breastfeeding for the baby, not the pump. The baby is who helps establish the good milk supply.
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Old 09-17-2012, 06:36 AM   #115
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Re: babywise

In the end it's like Leslie said, it works for some families and it doesn't for others. We are all different in our thoughts, our views and approaches. But it doesn't mean one is better and the other is terrible. It means we all have different needs.

The arguing to try to get a point across is really a moot point because of that. If you don't like purposeful scheduling, don't do it. If you like routine but flexibility work with that. If you like a strict schedule go with that.

Heck even though Leslie and I had vastly different approaches, I can see why some of my friends and other parents chose the BW route. I totally let my kiddos guide me. That was my choice. And I was seriously blessed that they turned out to be schedule/routine oriented children. I found that they just feel apart and still do if we don't keep to a serious schedule. If we are out somewhere, by 5-6pm, they ASK to go home. They are tired, want baths and want bedtime. None of that is my own doing. I totally fed on demand, let them snack. My youngest would nurse for an hour at a time.

Now let me say if I had not been blessed with good sleepers [on their own again] from the get go, AND I was working then full time like I do now, I can honestly say that I think scheduling would be very tempting.

In the end, it's silly to make this yet another mommy war. To not understand the other side is OK. To think that the other side is wrong and continually pointing it out? Not OK.

The truth is, yeah many BW moms might dry up with BF'ing, but you know what, much to many chagrins, BF'ing is important but not such a huge deal that they want to center their life around that one act. And that's OK too. If BF'ing is a main goal in another's life, GREAT! Go for it. It was extremely important to me with my second who nursed until he was 3 years old! But I have friends who just were not as invested but it doesn't bother me because it's their call, their life.

I just encourage all moms of all paths to continue seeking what is right for *your* family
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Old 09-17-2012, 06:48 AM   #116
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Re: babywise

Actually I don't see a Mommy war on this thread, i think it is actually very educational, and my question was an honest one, I honestly never knew a BW Mom in real life. I have had friends who do some scheduling, but it is one they devised over 6 kids, nothing from a book, that my friend and her two sisters use. I never knew that BW advocated a strict pumping schedule as well, I find that interesting. I also added, cause it is not a common issue, that I had a strange health reaction to pumping, so that would have been hard for me. That isn't a judgement, more a personal issue that I doubt would effect almost any other Mom on DS, but something that would effect my choice.
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Old 09-17-2012, 06:54 AM   #117
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Actually I don't see a Mommy war on this thread, i think it is actually very educational, and my question was an honest one, I honestly never knew a BW Mom in real life. I have had friends who do some scheduling, but it is one they devised over 6 kids, nothing from a book, that my friend and her two sisters use. I never knew that BW advocated a strict pumping schedule as well, I find that interesting. I also added, cause it is not a common issue, that I had a strange health reaction to pumping, so that would have been hard for me. That isn't a judgement, more a personal issue that I doubt would effect almost any other Mom on DS, but something that would effect my choice.
Oh I didn't think you were doing it I promise But I've seen threads where it was full on war and people think it's neglectful and abusive and such. Things like that are just ridiculous.

Now I sound more like your friend. Now that my children are older I devise a schedule but based on their leading. Again though, I'm so lucky to have children who just 'got it' and needed it. Because I need a routine and schedule. I go crazy if there is chaos. BUT I also like some flexibility because we can be spur of the moment. Just not all the time.

Oh I'm sorry about the pumping I pumped in the beginning with my second because of issues. Man was I tired between nursing every 1/2 to 1 hour and then pumping. But finally I got my supply established [I had a health issue during the birth of my second that affected me for a couple of months.]
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Old 09-17-2012, 06:56 AM   #118
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Re: babywise

Terra, I wasn't trying to snark at you or anything with my posts. I wasn't going to comment on my feelings about BW other than just my first post about not liking it, until people started with the whole "I read about all these moms with kids that don't sleep and I'm so glad I didn't make those mistakes" blah blah blah...

It irked me, because I tried scheduling, I tried all sorts of things, I read a thousand books, and in the end none of it mattered because it's just my child and I have to accept his personality and sleep style and work within that. I also have to accept my abilities, needs, and instincts and work within those as well. But, my child isn't a poor sleeper because I'm a poor mother, or because I didn't follow some program. He's a poor sleeper because he is a poor sleeper. That's all.

I realize the link posted by pp represents the extremes. That shows the danger that relying on books without using some sort of common sense can cause. I think MOST families use more common sense than that, but certainly not all, or there wouldn't be so many warnings about Ezzo out there. Not only that, but I fundamentally disagree with his program because I think he misrepresents scripture in his "ministry" and that goes against my religious beliefs in general. So, I have problems with him, not just the BW program.

Anyway, to the OP, I hope you find a solution that works for your family. Good luck!
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Old 09-17-2012, 07:10 AM   #119
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I agree that I think this thread has been really educational as opposed to an all out battle of ideals and attacks. There may have been a hint of that , but nothing crazy. I think if a mom were considering looking into BW this thread would be helpful as it points out some of the realities of scheduling and the mom could then decide if that fits were her life and goals.

The FTT issues are still the most concerning to me about BW. If it weren't for that, I'd be much more "meh" about it. But when you've got a hungry baby trained to STTN instead of eat when their little body absolutely needs food (thus the FTT diagnosis) that's really disconcerting. I love my sleep as much if not more than the next person, I just can't place my need for sleep above my baby's need for food.
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Old 09-17-2012, 07:18 AM   #120
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Terra, I wasn't trying to snark at you or anything with my posts. I wasn't going to comment on my feelings about BW other than just my first post about not liking it, until people started with the whole "I read about all these moms with kids that don't sleep and I'm so glad I didn't make those mistakes" blah blah blah...

It irked me, because I tried scheduling, I tried all sorts of things, I read a thousand books, and in the end none of it mattered because it's just my child and I have to accept his personality and sleep style and work within that. I also have to accept my abilities, needs, and instincts and work within those as well. But, my child isn't a poor sleeper because I'm a poor mother, or because I didn't follow some program. He's a poor sleeper because he is a poor sleeper. That's all.

I realize the link posted by pp represents the extremes. That shows the danger that relying on books without using some sort of common sense can cause. I think MOST families use more common sense than that, but certainly not all, or there wouldn't be so many warnings about Ezzo out there. Not only that, but I fundamentally disagree with his program because I think he misrepresents scripture in his "ministry" and that goes against my religious beliefs in general. So, I have problems with him, not just the BW program.

Anyway, to the OP, I hope you find a solution that works for your family. Good luck!
Thanks! I didn't think you were being snarky to me. And I do agree that this thread is actually pretty tame compared to past ones right!

I did the same thing with my boys, but like you said common sense. The friends that I know personally thankfully have common sense and never ever let a newborn cry. And most of them started later like 3ish months to even start scheduling. And many of those rocked and cuddled to sleep too. They just adapted it to what fit their need/style.

I do hate, like anything, the extremes that some parents go too. Thankfully the women in this thread on all sides don't seem extreme!
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I agree that I think this thread has been really educational as opposed to an all out battle of ideals and attacks. There may have been a hint of that , but nothing crazy. I think if a mom were considering looking into BW this thread would be helpful as it points out some of the realities of scheduling and the mom could then decide if that fits were her life and goals.

The FTT issues are still the most concerning to me about BW. If it weren't for that, I'd be much more "meh" about it. But when you've got a hungry baby trained to STTN instead of eat when their little body absolutely needs food (thus the FTT diagnosis) that's really disconcerting. I love my sleep as much if not more than the next person, I just can't place my need for sleep above my baby's need for food.
Yeah, the FTT is very concerning. Again though I know that those are extreme cases. But educational approaches like this thread are a better way to say at least be careful, which again the BW moms here are!
I totally get that it's not for everyone.
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