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Old 09-17-2012, 09:55 PM   #241
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Re: babywise

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I apologize for a poor tone in my response. No offense intended. I didn't read your post as asking for clarification but rather as delivering instruction. "you SHOULD nurse when sick" or "a longterm nursing relationship is over a year". Sorry for reading into your post what wasn't intended apparently.
Nope, just asking to make sure. It really bothers me when people just assume and don't ask for clarification first. I added the info after the question for anyone who reads it to make sure they know. I think a lot of people especially read quoted posts, but don't go back to read the full post to make sure they get all the info. And, since you weren't clear about how sick, I wanted to add that so others knew until your answered. And again, not everyone always answers, lol.

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Old 09-17-2012, 09:57 PM   #242
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Re: babywise

Didn't mean to speak for Megan but was referring to post #222 where she mentions that he was tired and ate 90 minutes ago. Its a big 'ole thread, easy to miss some posts .

The bolded comment was saying that I'm glad you have had great success in encouraging peaceful and independent sleep by laying your LOs down before they are overtired. Its what we do also and works for us smashingly well as it appears to have been instrumental in peaceful sleep at your house. Makes sense?
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Old 09-17-2012, 10:03 PM   #243
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Leslie, I just wanted to say you're doing a really nice job sort of "moderating" and speaking on behalf of your school of thought. I'm enjoying this discussion. I don't think there's anything wrong with valuing order and predictability in a contemporary, First World home. My issues with Ezzo are academic and stem from annoyance at some of his claims from philosophy, theology, and science/human anthropology. They are NOT with individual mothers lovingly implementing a household paradigm that places a premium on something they value, which is order and structure. Just so we're clear!
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Old 09-17-2012, 10:03 PM   #244
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Re: babywise

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Didn't mean to speak for Megan but was referring to post #222 where she mentions that he was tired and ate 90 minutes ago. Its a big 'ole thread, easy to miss some posts .

The bolded comment was saying that I'm glad you have had great success in encouraging peaceful and independent sleep by laying your LOs down before they are overtired. Its what we do also and works for us smashingly well as it appears to have been instrumental in peaceful sleep at your house. Makes sense?
Yeah, I read the 90 minutes but apparently I'm too tired for it to register in my brain. Hmmmm, past bed time for me perhaps? Yes, lol.

Yes, that makes sense.
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Old 09-17-2012, 10:06 PM   #245
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Re: babywise

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You and some other moms have found a way to get routine and great sleep without a schedule and that's great. Congrats! Unfortunately, the parenting forum is filled daily with other families struggling with exhaustion and frustration and exasperation. We have found great success with the Eat,play, sleep ordering of the day, waking at the same time daily, and aiming for feedings and naps are predictable intervals and for predictable durations. If any of that, some of that, all of that helps another mommy find her groove, I call it a success. Whether you label it, attribute it to an author or your own intuition is no matter to me.
Because babies go through different phases in the first few years where they dont' sleep well no matter what schedule they do or do not have and parents need to be reminded at those times that it's normal and it will pass. Also many babies may have problems that interrupt their sleep but will not be diagnosed until they are older. I don't know if you're implying that all those parents who post about sleep problems could stop their problems by using the BW method or other sleep training program or not, but if you are I can assure you that the world and babies don't work that way.

For example my ds1 has a form of sensory processing disorder. Schedules or sleep training would not have worked for him, in fact, would have made things worse. His SPD was not diagnosed until he was older, making us think that he was just a "terrible" sleeper. Looking back now we know that wasn't the case. There are going to be other people who post here and elsewhere that have babies they think are bad sleepers but in reality will be diagnosed with something down the road that would have contributed to their baby's sleep habits early on. I will say now at 5 years old he goes to bed by himself when he's tired and sleep 12 hours a night, and he's been doing that since 2 years of age.
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Old 09-17-2012, 10:11 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by JennTheMomma

Because babies go through different phases in the first few years where they dont' sleep well no matter what schedule they do or do not have and parents need to be reminded at those times that it's normal and it will pass. Also many babies may have problems that interrupt their sleep but will not be diagnosed until they are older. I don't know if you're implying that all those parents who post about sleep problems could stop their problems by using the BW method or other sleep training program or not, but if you are I can assure you that the world and babies don't work that way.

For example my ds1 has a form of sensory processing disorder. Schedules or sleep training would not have worked for him, in fact, would have made things worse. His SPD was not diagnosed until he was older, making us think that he was just a "terrible" sleeper. Looking back now we know that wasn't the case. There are going to be other people who post here and elsewhere that have babies they think are bad sleepers but in reality will be diagnosed with something down the road that would have contributed to their baby's sleep habits early on. I will say now at 5 years old he goes to bed by himself when he's tired and sleep 12 hours a night, and he's been doing that since 2 years of age.
I've got to agree here. My 1st DD was the same way and I even looked into using BW because I was exacerbated. No amount of routine worked with that hold though. Turns out she has Celiac disease and was sick, in pain, and was responding neurologically to foods in mine and her diet. Once those were gone she slept well for the first time in her life!
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Old 09-17-2012, 10:11 PM   #247
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Re: babywise

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Leslie, I just wanted to say you're doing a really nice job sort of "moderating" and speaking on behalf of your school of thought. I'm enjoying this discussion. I don't think there's anything wrong with valuing order and predictability in a contemporary, First World home. My issues with Ezzo are academic and stem from annoyance at some of his claims from philosophy, theology, and science/human anthropology. They are NOT with individual mothers lovingly implementing a household paradigm that places a premium on something they value, which is order and structure. Just so we're clear!
Aw, thanks. I understand your objections to Gary and Anne Marie. (On a side note, I object to their wardrobe. Their clothes make me nuts if you ever get to see them ) Anywho, I appreciate your clarification and I understand your frustrations with the Ezzos and GFI. Its a shame, because there's some great encouragement and guidance buried under all the rhetoric that offends and causes books to be thrown away. And yup, different mommies have different value paradigms and thrive in different environments. Thanks for giving them the freedom to do so .
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Old 09-17-2012, 10:14 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by GEMQEMCABOOSE

Aw, thanks. I understand your objections to Gary and Anne Marie. (On a side note, I object to their wardrobe. Their clothes make me nuts if you ever get to see them ) Anywho, I appreciate your clarification and I understand your frustrations with the Ezzos and GFI. Its a shame, because there's some great encouragement and guidance buried under all the rhetoric that offends and causes books to be thrown away. And yup, different mommies have different value paradigms and thrive in different environments. Thanks for giving them the freedom to do so .
LOL! I object to the big LLL authors' and to Sheila Kippley's wardrobes, too.
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Old 09-17-2012, 10:16 PM   #249
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Re: babywise

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Because babies go through different phases in the first few years where they dont' sleep well no matter what schedule they do or do not have and parents need to be reminded at those times that it's normal and it will pass. Also many babies may have problems that interrupt their sleep but will not be diagnosed until they are older. I don't know if you're implying that all those parents who post about sleep problems could stop their problems by using the BW method or other sleep training program or not, but if you are I can assure you that the world and babies don't work that way.
I believe many of those posters could be helped by routine and and eat-play-sleep and what sleep cues looks like and some variety of order. I also understand some babies will not be as they have health or developmental concerns that require special attention. I don't profess one solution works for everyone all the time. What I can say is IME not all babies experience sleep troubles or phases of sleeplessness. It doesn't have to be that way for all babies nor is that normal in all families and all babies.
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Old 09-17-2012, 10:17 PM   #250
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Re: babywise

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LOL! I object to the big LLL authors' and to Sheila Kippley's wardrobes, too.
Must google tomorrow
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