Reply Hey Mom! Learn more about the Gerber Life Insurance Grow-Up Plan!
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-16-2012, 08:18 AM   #41
JennTheMomma's Avatar
JennTheMomma
Registered Users
seller
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,820
My Mood:
Re: babywise

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaga View Post
I wouldn't judge so quickly. Everyone's kiddos have different sleep needs, maybe you lucked out with an easygoing sleeper. Just sayin'.

Sent from my iPhone using DS Forum
Yup, plus research on baby/child sleep suggests that normal time frame for sleeping through the night is between 18 months and 3 or 5 years (I forget which one). There is a reason babies wake at night, they are suppose to, they are not desigend for STTN. Plus most adults don't STTN so I don't know why we expect tiny beings to do so when their bladders and tummies are so much smaller than ours. Babies also wake for so many reasons, diaper change, hungry, startled themselves, scared, not feeling good, too hot, too cold, and so on. Waking up and crying is their only way to let us know.

I don't think a baby needs to be trained to sleep. They know how to sleep, they just aren't old enough to sleep as much as adults would like. That's a fact, and making a schedule for a baby is not a good idea. Babies need to eat on demand and sleep when they're tired and be awake when they want to. That I believe brings the best results in babies and kids.

Advertisement

JennTheMomma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2012, 08:23 AM   #42
wordbox's Avatar
wordbox
Registered Users
seller
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,056
My Mood:
Re: babywise

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaga View Post
I wouldn't judge so quickly. Everyone's kiddos have different sleep needs, maybe you lucked out with an easygoing sleeper. Just sayin'.

Sent from my iPhone using DS Forum
I totally agree with this. We tried so many things to help our son sleep as a baby. It's just not in his nature, even though we tried to do everything "right."

One of the bloggers I follow was a major proponent of babywise and swore by it... only to have her second child who didn't respond to it at all. Some kids are just better sleepers than others. Some babies are high needs and no matter what you try, they aren't going to be easy or sleep as well as we'd like them to.
__________________
Mommy to Grant (July 2010) and Greta (July 2012)

I purged 2,920 items in 2012 and 2,014 items in 2013.
2,014 items in 2014?
wordbox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2012, 09:03 AM   #43
mibarra
Registered Users
seller
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,985
I'm trying to remember, is this author the one who believes putting babies to sleep on their backs has no effect on SIDS rates??

It's like with everything else, every kid is different, every kid responds to different things, take what you need, trust your instincts, ditch the rest.

I read a little and tossed it. I think there are better, more flexible solutions with similar concepts.
mibarra is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2012, 09:08 AM   #44
mibarra
Registered Users
seller
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 8,985
Quote:
Originally Posted by GEMQEMCABOOSE

Actually, the Ezzos first published the eat,play, sleep routine almost 20 years ago in their Christian series which is now titled "Come Along the Infant Way". I have friends who were taking and teaching classes on it 19 years ago. The Baby Whisperer, IMO, has simply repackaged many of those ideas because they work, in a milder package, and without the Ezzo name attached. People object to the feeding interval idea proposed by Ezzo and miss all the paragraphs about discretion and discernment and what to look for and good ole common sense. TBW softened all that and encourages no alone crying. We love Babywise and have been able to bless many families by teaching it: the routine and sleep cues and hunger cues as well as the common "habits" that can occur with babies and toddlers and guidance through those; that's the genius of the Ezzos in BW.

Endless threads on the DS about poor sleeping in babies and toddlers, I cannot even read them all since its often the same things over and over again and the situations are often so clear. I'm with Mom2Connor, I'm so thankful for the wisdom of parents who've found what works with scheduling and have the courage to share it and teach it. This is a sleep training household as are those of our closest friends. 38 babies from 8 families all raised from birth nearly identically following Ezzos teachings. All STTN early, all napped until at least 5 years old, all happy, sound sleepers, all thrived and grew and developed well. Some of these kiddos are reaching 20 now and they're all still doing well. They weren't FTT, they weren't "hardened" by scheduling, or didn't attach, or didn't feel loved, or any of the other GARBAGE people assume will happen or google into believing. There are so many misconceptions, especially on DS, about BW and scheduling in general. The truth is we often have little to no crying in the learning phase, its possible. We rarely have a baby who cannot eat every 3 hours under 5 months, or every 4 hours over 5 months of age. They eat full meals, not snacks, get lots of hindmilk and gain weight very well. Some even get the serious chunks . They get plenty of snuggling and loving from their families.

Everyone makes their choices, you just should do so with an eye toward consequences IMO. I made an informed decision and had seen in real life with other children and families how scheduling played out. I value predictability and good sleep for all, as well as my role to guide and teach my children, even from birth. BW was and is a terrific fit for us and all the moms I counsel with it on here and IRL. I have read the Dr. Sears books also. I remain amazed that so many demand-feeding, all the time nursing, co-sleeping, hours of babywearing, moms still are shocked and disappointed when they end up with a terrible sleeper as many (not all) do. Did they not read Dr. Sears book? He himself talks about more night waking with co-sleeping, night parenting until 3 or 4 years of age. If you read blogs and forums or talk to other moms parenting that way, these are very common occurences. I see it everyday. It doesn't matter to me if you are AP, I don't think there's a right or a wrong way. But, by goly, why are you surprised when you choose that route and you and your baby don't sleep well? That's what you were warned would happen and what is the widely experienced outcome of those choices.

So yes, as for me and mine, we are Babywise followers. We have seen the fruit from it here and elsewhere. Make what choices you feel right about for your family, and know we're all doing the same.
I have seen this and similar posts from you many times. I'm glad it worked for you. I assume you are just trying to share you're experience about something you are passionate about. But, at least in my experience, you're word choices and way of putting things also seem condescending and really put me off of even wanting to learn more about this method. I'm sure not everyone takes it this way, but something to think about.
mibarra is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2012, 09:44 AM   #45
Fairycat
Registered Users
seller
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 5,288
My Mood:
Re: babywise

Quote:
Originally Posted by mibarra View Post
I have seen this and similar posts from you many times. I'm glad it worked for you. I assume you are just trying to share you're experience about something you are passionate about. But, at least in my experience, you're word choices and way of putting things also seem condescending and really put me off of even wanting to learn more about this method. I'm sure not everyone takes it this way, but something to think about.
I have to agree. One of her posts made me look into why everyone hates Babywise, and really lead me to dislike it, instead of the post leading me to want to look at the good in the system.

For me I went with what was natural to my intuituation with my child, and did many things the above poster thinks are bad, and my DS is an amazing sleeper, no issues at all. But that is just him, I think fighting his nature would have lead to him possibly being a very bad sleeper though.
Fairycat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2012, 09:45 AM   #46
Terra's Avatar
Terra
Drinks her not-just-a-smoothie pina coladas in ALL CAPS in front of her preschoolers before she takes her CDs and goes home.
seller
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 12,302
My Mood:
Re: babywise

Quote:
Originally Posted by mibarra View Post
I have seen this and similar posts from you many times. I'm glad it worked for you. I assume you are just trying to share you're experience about something you are passionate about. But, at least in my experience, you're word choices and way of putting things also seem condescending and really put me off of even wanting to learn more about this method. I'm sure not everyone takes it this way, but something to think about.
Interesting.

I've been pretty anti-babywise/scheduling to the point of being judgmental and I remember in threads past Gemcaboose chiming in and though I disagreed with her I never thought she was rude, EVER. I always, TBH, thought she was very eloquent in her point and non-judgmental. Typically stating her view and experience and leaving it at that, usually not engaging in the arguments of whose way is better.

Really in her post her, she has never said her way is the best or doesn't hurt babies. She just shared her experience.
I see far more judgmental and 'oh I would NEVER do that', it's neglect/abuse posts on such topics than I do from 'the other side'.

I was not a scheduler at all when my boys were babies. I fed on demand, co-slept, etc. And they fell into their own schedule. HOWEVER I do consider myself extremely lucky because they both went to bed around 7-8pm. My first did a dream feeding at 11am and STTN by 5 months [until about 6am]. My second went to bed at the same time but nursed every 2 hours until about 6-7 months then every three hours. I nightweaned him at 2.5 gently. I just was lucky. Had I had a baby who woke up every 1/2-1 hour, it may have been totally different.

To each their own.
__________________
Terra: Independent woman, wife to Eric , mother to David & Aaron
Deeply spiritual, follower of Christ, connnected to my Native American spiritual roots. Over-thinker on life!
http://myownblueplanet.blogspot.com/
Terra is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2012, 09:47 AM   #47
Terra's Avatar
Terra
Drinks her not-just-a-smoothie pina coladas in ALL CAPS in front of her preschoolers before she takes her CDs and goes home.
seller
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 12,302
My Mood:
Re: babywise

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairycat View Post
I have to agree. One of her posts made me look into why everyone hates Babywise, and really lead me to dislike it, instead of the post leading me to want to look at the good in the system.

For me I went with what was natural to my intuituation with my child, and did many things the above poster thinks are bad, and my DS is an amazing sleeper, no issues at all. But that is just him, I think fighting his nature would have lead to him possibly being a very bad sleeper though.
See that's just it though. Both of you are saying that she seems judgmental but to the bolded, this comes off as judgmental as well. Like saying that Gemcaboose isn't following her intuition. She doesn't have to have the same experience as you do.
Now I've agreed with you on many things and disagreed on some but it doesn't mean our experiences are any less because they were not the same.
__________________
Terra: Independent woman, wife to Eric , mother to David & Aaron
Deeply spiritual, follower of Christ, connnected to my Native American spiritual roots. Over-thinker on life!
http://myownblueplanet.blogspot.com/
Terra is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2012, 10:10 AM   #48
Fairycat
Registered Users
seller
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 5,288
My Mood:
Re: babywise

Quote:
Originally Posted by GEMQEMCABOOSE View Post
Actually, the Ezzos first published the eat,play, sleep routine almost 20 years ago in their Christian series which is now titled "Come Along the Infant Way". I have friends who were taking and teaching classes on it 19 years ago. The Baby Whisperer, IMO, has simply repackaged many of those ideas because they work, in a milder package, and without the Ezzo name attached. People object to the feeding interval idea proposed by Ezzo and miss all the paragraphs about discretion and discernment and what to look for and good ole common sense. TBW softened all that and encourages no alone crying. We love Babywise and have been able to bless many families by teaching it: the routine and sleep cues and hunger cues as well as the common "habits" that can occur with babies and toddlers and guidance through those; that's the genius of the Ezzos in BW.

Endless threads on the DS about poor sleeping in babies and toddlers, I cannot even read them all since its often the same things over and over again and the situations are often so clear. I'm with Mom2Connor, I'm so thankful for the wisdom of parents who've found what works with scheduling and have the courage to share it and teach it. This is a sleep training household as are those of our closest friends. 38 babies from 8 families all raised from birth nearly identically following Ezzos teachings. All STTN early, all napped until at least 5 years old, all happy, sound sleepers, all thrived and grew and developed well. Some of these kiddos are reaching 20 now and they're all still doing well. They weren't FTT, they weren't "hardened" by scheduling, or didn't attach, or didn't feel loved, or any of the other GARBAGE people assume will happen or google into believing. There are so many misconceptions, especially on DS, about BW and scheduling in general. The truth is we often have little to no crying in the learning phase, its possible. We rarely have a baby who cannot eat every 3 hours under 5 months, or every 4 hours over 5 months of age. They eat full meals, not snacks, get lots of hindmilk and gain weight very well. Some even get the serious chunks . They get plenty of snuggling and loving from their families.

Everyone makes their choices, you just should do so with an eye toward consequences IMO. I made an informed decision and had seen in real life with other children and families how scheduling played out. I value predictability and good sleep for all, as well as my role to guide and teach my children, even from birth. BW was and is a terrific fit for us and all the moms I counsel with it on here and IRL. I have read the Dr. Sears books also. I remain amazed that so many demand-feeding, all the time nursing, co-sleeping, hours of babywearing, moms still are shocked and disappointed when they end up with a terrible sleeper as many (not all) do. Did they not read Dr. Sears book? He himself talks about more night waking with co-sleeping, night parenting until 3 or 4 years of age. If you read blogs and forums or talk to other moms parenting that way, these are very common occurences. I see it everyday. It doesn't matter to me if you are AP, I don't think there's a right or a wrong way. But, by goly, why are you surprised when you choose that route and you and your baby don't sleep well? That's what you were warned would happen and what is the widely experienced outcome of those choices.

So yes, as for me and mine, we are Babywise followers. We have seen the fruit from it here and elsewhere. Make what choices you feel right about for your family, and know we're all doing the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra View Post
See that's just it though. Both of you are saying that she seems judgmental but to the bolded, this comes off as judgmental as well. Like saying that Gemcaboose isn't following her intuition. She doesn't have to have the same experience as you do.
Now I've agreed with you on many things and disagreed on some but it doesn't mean our experiences are any less because they were not the same.
The bolded are some of the things I read as judgemental. It is not just this is my opinion, she also mentions, if we disagree, what we read was "garbage". If we do anything but scheduling we should expect "the consequences". Well of course your kids sleep bad, because you are following the wrong system, and we get bad sleepers. The tone is very, pointed, and not really about doing your own thing, as she really only seems to think scheduling will get you a good sleeper.

Oh and this post with "help" from contact/teachers of Babywise, like Gema above (not saying she is one in the post), are some of the issues I would never use Babywise. Sure some say, you need to be flexible and not follow the clock, but in the end to schedule the way they have you, and to force some kids into the schedule, you wiill get these kids.

http://ezzo.info/resources/timeline/...er-in-michigan
Fairycat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2012, 10:17 AM   #49
Terra's Avatar
Terra
Drinks her not-just-a-smoothie pina coladas in ALL CAPS in front of her preschoolers before she takes her CDs and goes home.
seller
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 12,302
My Mood:
Re: babywise

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairycat View Post
The bolded are some of the things I read as judgemental. It is not just this is my opinion, she also mentions, if we disagree, what we read was "garbage". If we do anything but scheduling we should expect "the consequences". Well of course your kids sleep bad, because you are following the wrong system, and we get bad sleepers. The tone is very, pointed, and not really about doing your own thing, as she really only seems to think scheduling will get you a good sleeper.

Oh and this post with "help" from contact/teachers of Babywise, like Gema above (not saying she is one in the post), are some of the issues I would never use Babywise. Sure some say, you need to be flexible and not follow the clock, but in the end to schedule the way they have you, and to force some kids into the schedule, you wiill get these kids.

http://ezzo.info/resources/timeline/...er-in-michigan
I guess I just don't see them as any more judgmental than posts from moms who think spanking is "abuse", or those that do schedule are not "following their instincts", or those that don't eat all healthy/organic/whole are "neglecting their children, or those that don't co-sleep aren't "tuned into their child's cues, or those that don't CD don't "care about the environment....I could go on.

Honestly I think that finally people are standing up and saying hey I follow this route and braving the harsh criticism that often lurks on DS. In that case I say good for them.

AP moms don't like it when people say that we are spoiling our children and such, so why not just offer the same courtesy no matter what parenting path one follows.
Even if [general] you don't agree with something you can always offer a and good luck [especially if no real advice was asked for]. The OP was simply asking are there any other moms on this board whom this path has worked for.
__________________
Terra: Independent woman, wife to Eric , mother to David & Aaron
Deeply spiritual, follower of Christ, connnected to my Native American spiritual roots. Over-thinker on life!
http://myownblueplanet.blogspot.com/
Terra is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2012, 10:20 AM   #50
Terra's Avatar
Terra
Drinks her not-just-a-smoothie pina coladas in ALL CAPS in front of her preschoolers before she takes her CDs and goes home.
seller
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 12,302
My Mood:
Re: babywise

And I'm well versed in that website. I read it quite a bit when I was so hard core AP that I thought my way was the only way. How naive and ignorant I was. I think we can find extremes in ANY avenue of parenting if we look hard enough. Do some babies have a hard time? Yes, of course because there will always be a few parents who are just ignorant as to how to do it correctly. But we can find that in the AP world, or whatever other path one follows. So you're preaching to the choir with that link and the argument
. I already stated I don't personally care for babywise but I know 2 families personally who have 7 children between them from ages 2 years to 14 years, all BW babies and all perfectly adjusted.
__________________
Terra: Independent woman, wife to Eric , mother to David & Aaron
Deeply spiritual, follower of Christ, connnected to my Native American spiritual roots. Over-thinker on life!
http://myownblueplanet.blogspot.com/
Terra is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Copyright 2005 - 2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.