Reply Hey Mom! Learn more about the Gerber Life Insurance Grow-Up Plan!
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-19-2012, 08:39 AM   #21
jeebee's Avatar
jeebee
Registered Users
seller
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 6,899
My Mood:
Re: S/O- My 2 year old still doesn't STTN. That doesn't mean I did something Wrong!

True dat. Did the same thing with all my 3 kids, they're all completely different. My middle child is a hideous sleeper. She is 2.5 and still does not consistently STTN. I wonder if she ever will stop waking me up every night. Ah well...

Advertisement

__________________
Jen=mummy to L and S and A, my birthday thief, and one little baby-not-to-be 14/2/14
I sell patterns for OSFM covers and fitted diapers, please check outhttps://www.etsy.com/au/shop/purenappiness
jeebee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2012, 08:53 AM   #22
paper_girl_76's Avatar
paper_girl_76
Registered Users
seller
seller
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,850
My Mood:
Re: S/O- My 2 year old still doesn't STTN. That doesn't mean I did something Wrong!

Right! I have 3 who I have done nothing different with. My oldest has never slept through the night...never...he is 8 now. But my girls are wonderful sleepers and once they are out, they are out.

I also do not sleep more than a few hours at a time, wake up to potty, get a drink, check on the kids, etc...every single night.
__________________
tina UC mama of 5!
paper_girl_76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2012, 07:30 AM   #23
GEM Cloth's Avatar
GEM Cloth
Registered Users
Formerly: michellemomx3
seller
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 11,623
My Mood:
Re: S/O- My 2 year old still doesn't STTN. That doesn't mean I did something Wrong!

I completely agree. Everyone is different. I always feel it's best to listen to yourself and your child and not what anyone else says.
__________________
Michelle, mom to DD (7/9/99), DD (11/12/01), and DS (4/17/07); wife to DH (8/31/96)
GEM (Green and Economical by Michelle) Cloth
~*~REUSABLE CLOTH PAD SETS~*~ NOW SHIPPING OUTSIDE U.S.~*~
GEM Cloth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2012, 07:46 AM   #24
TeachinAuntie's Avatar
TeachinAuntie
Registered Users
Formerly: sgoe***
seller
seller
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Posts: 8,156
My Mood:
Re: S/O- My 2 year old still doesn't STTN. That doesn't mean I did something Wrong!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dancermommy1 View Post
You know what finally worked for me?? Acceptance! I accepted that my child is a unique individual who would develop in his own time and who would, believe it or not, sleep through the night when his body was ready. I accepted that I was not doing anything wrong by rocking my baby to sleep, or nursing to sleep. That I can trust myself to do the best for my child without having to read a book about it. In short--I took the advice my mom gave me from the very beginning. I tossed the books and started believing in myself.


I haven't read the other thread you mentioned...but my 3 yo (next month) doesn't STTN either! He doesn't get to nurse in the middle of the night *unless he's REALLY upset* but I do go to his bed & snuggle him back to sleep at least once most nights. Some nights he STTN and other nights he is up 3-4 times! But, I know he's okay, bc he is an awesome kid!
__________________
Steph: DW to Tim
Proud Mama to Lucas Wayne 10/18/09 & Vincent James8/8/11

TeachinAuntie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2012, 08:12 AM   #25
bezark's Avatar
bezark
Registered Users
seller
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 3,408
My Mood:
I completely agree that acceptance is a HUGE game changer.
If memory serves, DS1 was actually a better sleeper than DS2 is at this age, but I drove myself nuts worrying about his sleep schedule. I watched the clock all day and all night so I knew exactly how long he slept, how many times and when he woke up, etc. I think I made myself more tired just knowing that I woke up X times for X minutes each the night before. I did let him do his thing and allowed him to set the tone, ie: he needed to be nursed to sleep, so I did that. When he went through phases of needing to touch me all night, I did that. I HOPE that that has something to do with his awesome sleep habits today, but I can't be sure.

With DS2, I realize that this isn't permanent. Some day he will STTN, or at least not need me so much if he does wake up and it's just not worth stressing over. A few years of broken sleep is really peanuts in the grand scheme of parenting. I even choose to hold him through all 3-4 naps a day, just because I know that this won't last so I'd better savor the snuggles.
I still have days when I need a nap so bad I could just cry, but overall, life is just so much easier when I'm not stressing over a kid's sleep or comparing him to my friends' full time crib sleepers.
__________________
Robbyn, SAHM to Silas, 4/3/09 and Griffin, 3/23/12
bezark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2012, 09:33 AM   #26
Shaunam's Avatar
Shaunam
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,475
Re: S/O- My 2 year old still doesn't STTN. That doesn't mean I did something Wrong!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcpforever View Post

If your baby is waking every 45-90 minutes at that age, someone's doing something "wrong."
Um, NO. My kid did that and we weren't over tired, he just needed to nurse a lot to calm his reflux, which every doctor I took him to refused to treat. Maybe the doctors were wrong, but it's not always a behavioral thing that the parents can "fix".
__________________
Shauna, mom to Adrian, 9 and Charlie, 6!
Shaunam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2012, 11:09 AM   #27
mcpforever's Avatar
mcpforever
Registered Users
seller
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bama
Posts: 11,738
My Mood:
Re: S/O- My 2 year old still doesn't STTN. That doesn't mean I did something Wrong!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaunam View Post
Um, NO. My kid did that and we weren't over tired, he just needed to nurse a lot to calm his reflux, which every doctor I took him to refused to treat. Maybe the doctors were wrong, but it's not always a behavioral thing that the parents can "fix".
The bolded would be the "wrong" part and he wouldn't have needed to nurse that often if his reflux had been properly treated.
__________________
Melissa-Wife, mother to DS 4/02 and DD 4/07, DS 7/08 DD 7/13
ISO: my lost shaker of salt
mcpforever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2012, 11:16 AM   #28
Shaunam's Avatar
Shaunam
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,475
Re: S/O- My 2 year old still doesn't STTN. That doesn't mean I did something Wrong!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcpforever View Post
The bolded would be the "wrong" part and he wouldn't have needed to nurse that often if his reflux had been properly treated.
But even if I never figured out what was causing him to nurse so often (quite honestly I wasn't aware until he was older), who would have been "wrong"? I think by stating that "someone is doing something wrong" you are taking away from the point of this thread which is mamas who are accepting their child's sleep habits, whether they are good or bad compared to average. Who decides what is over the line anyway? Is it ok to wake every 90 minutes at 1 year? 10 months? 6 months? When is it that someone is doing something "wrong"?
__________________
Shauna, mom to Adrian, 9 and Charlie, 6!
Shaunam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2012, 12:58 PM   #29
mcpforever's Avatar
mcpforever
Registered Users
seller
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bama
Posts: 11,738
My Mood:
Re: S/O- My 2 year old still doesn't STTN. That doesn't mean I did something Wrong!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaunam View Post
But even if I never figured out what was causing him to nurse so often (quite honestly I wasn't aware until he was older), who would have been "wrong"? I think by stating that "someone is doing something wrong" you are taking away from the point of this thread which is mamas who are accepting their child's sleep habits, whether they are good or bad compared to average. Who decides what is over the line anyway? Is it ok to wake every 90 minutes at 1 year? 10 months? 6 months? When is it that someone is doing something "wrong"?
Here's the thing, we can do things "wrong" and still be blameless because we just didn't have the information we needed to do it "right." It doesn't change that what we do is still wrong.

For instance, when I fell pg with DS2, DD was 5.5 months old. Everyone said that it would be fine for me to continue nursing her, that she would get adequate nutrition, blah blah blah. I accepted that and by 7 months she had lost over a pound! Obviously, I did something "wrong."

As far as taking away from this thread, my intention was to give balance. We can accept as much as we'd like, but if the sleeping habits are such that they are negatively impacting baby's and mother's lives-as in more than a simple inconvenience-then acceptance is accepting poor sleep habits as well as accepting the other negatives that can accompany them.

My second son got into the habit of nursing every 45 minutes at night. It started at 8 months and I accepted it while blaming it on teething or illness or milestones. It just never got better. I was exhausted. I was not as nice to my DH and other children as I normally was. My baby was cranky all.the.time. He was still growing fine, but he was also growing into a grouch! So I worked to nightwean him and things got so much better. Once he learned how to get through that spot in his 45 minute sleep cycle, he slept better and suddenly started SMILING again.

None of this is to say that we as mothers should only strive to get our babies sleeping 12 hours straight (or whatever the supersleeper's mom on FB claims). It is simply to say that we have to find balance and be able to discern when what we have accepted isn't really acceptable. And THEN we can change it for the better.
__________________
Melissa-Wife, mother to DS 4/02 and DD 4/07, DS 7/08 DD 7/13
ISO: my lost shaker of salt
mcpforever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2012, 01:19 PM   #30
burnsis's Avatar
burnsis
Registered Users
seller
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,651
My Mood:
Re: S/O- My 2 year old still doesn't STTN. That doesn't mean I did something Wrong!

It's actually normal and healthy for a child to NOT sleep through the night until 3-4 years of age. It is society that creates this unrealistic expectation that babies should be sleeping through the night as infants. This kind of pressure leads people to schedules, CIO, etc It is important to trust your maternal instincts, always

My favorite article on the subject is below:

http://www.kathydettwyler.org/detsleepthrough.html

Sleeping through the Night
by Katherine A. Dettwyler, Ph.D.

Department of Anthropology,
Texas A & M University
****

[This essay was originally directed to one person. It has been edited slightly to make it less specific.]

I am an Adjunct (semi-retired) Associate Professor of Anthropology and Nutrition at Texas A&M University, and I do research on infant/child feeding beliefs/practices both cross-culturally and from an evolutionary perspective, as well as research on children's health and growth. I know from first-hand experience that being a new parent is a difficult time of adjustment, especially when expectations don't match reality, especially when our culture has taught us that children should have certain needs/wants/behaviors and then our children don't seem to fit that mold. This problem of a mismatch between expectations and reality can be very difficult for new parents to accept and adjust to. Sometimes, some children can be encouraged/convinced/forced to fit the mold of cultural expectations, and they do fine. Othertimes, though they do eventually fit the mold, it is at the expense of their sense of who they are, their self-confidence, their view of the world as a safe and trusting place, sometimes, even, at the expense of their health or life. Probably nowhere do cultural expectations and the reality of children's needs conflict more than in the two areas of breastfeeding frequency and sleeping behaviors.

Human children are designed (whether you believe by millions of years of evolution, or by God, it doesn't matter) -- to nurse *very* frequently, based on the composition of the milk of the species, the fact that all higher primates (Primates are the zoological Order to which humans belong, higher primates include monkeys and apes) keep their offspring in the mother's arms or on her back for several years, the size of the young child's stomach, the rapidity with which breast milk is digested, the need for an almost constant source of nutrients to grow that huge brain (in humans, especially), and so on. By very frequently, I mean 3-4 times per hour, for a few minutes each time. The way in which some young infants are fed in our culture -- trying to get them to shift to a 3-4 hour schedule, with feedings of 15-20 minutes at a time, goes against our basic physiology. But humans are very adaptable, and some mothers will be able to make sufficient milk with this very infrequent stimulation and draining of the breasts, and some children will be able to adapt to large meals spaced far apart. Unfortunately, some mothers don't make enough milk with this little nursing, and some babies can't adjust, and so are fussy, cry a lot, seem to want to nurse "before it is time" and fail to grow and thrive. Of course, usually the mother's body is blamed -- "You can't make enough milk" -- rather than the culturally-imposed expectation that feeding every 3-4 hours should be sufficient, and the mother begins supplementing with formula, which leads to a steady spiral downward to complete weaning from the breast. Human children are also designed to have breast milk be a part of their diet for a minimum of 2.5 years, with many indicators pointing to 6-7 years as the true physiological duration of breastfeeding -- regardless of what your cultural beliefs may be. I can provide you with references to my research on this topic if you wish to read more.

The same is true of sleeping. Human children are designed to be sleeping with their parents. The sense of touch is the most important sense to primates, along with sight. Young primates are carried on their mother's body and sleep with her for years after birth, often until well after weaning. The expected pattern is for mother and child to sleep together, and for child to be able to nurse whenever they want during the night. Normal, healthy, breastfed and co-sleeping children do not sleep "through the night" (say 7-9 hours at a stretch) until they are 3-4 years old, and no longer need night nursing. I repeat -- this is NORMAL and HEALTHY. Dr. James McKenna's research on co-sleeping clearly shows the dangers of solitary sleeping in young infants, who slip into abnormal patterns of very deep sleep from which it is very difficult for them to rouse themselves when they experience an episode of apnea (stop breathing). When co-sleeping, the mother is monitoring the baby's sleep and breathing patterns, even though she herself is asleep. When the baby has an episode of apnea, she rouses the baby by her movements and touch. This is thought to be the primary mechanism by which co-sleeping protects children from Sudden Infant Death Syndrome. In other words, many cases of SIDS in solitary sleeping children are thought to be due to them having learned to sleep for long stretches at a time at a very early age, so they find themselves in these deep troughs of sleep, then they may experience an episode of apnea, and no one is there to notice or rouse them from it, so they just never start breathing again. Co-sleeping also allows a mother to monitor the baby's temperature during the night, to be there if they spit up and start to choke, and just to provide the normal, safe environment that the baby/child has been designed to expect.

Is this convenient for parents? No!

Is this difficult for some new parents to adjust to? Yes!

No doubt about it, the gap between what our culture teaches us to expect of the sleep patterns of a young child (read them a story, tuck them in, turn out the light, and not see them again for 8 hours) and the reality of how children actually sleep if healthy and normal, yawns widely.

But the first steps to dealing with the fact that your young child doesn't sleep through the night, or doesn't want to sleep without you is to realize that:

(1) Not sleeping through the night until they are 3 or 4 years of age is normal and healthy behavior for human infants.
(2) Your children are not being difficult or manipulative, they are being normal and healthy, and behaving in ways that are appropriate for our species.

Once you understand these simple truths, it becomes much easier to deal with parenting your child at night. Once you give up the idea that you must have 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep at night, and view these nighttime interactions with your child as precious and fleeting, you get used to them very quickly.

I highly recommend Dr. Sears' book on Nighttime Parenting [available from the La Leche League International Catalogue]. Our children's early years represent the most important and influential time of their lives. It passes all too quickly. But meeting your child's needs during these first few years will pay off in many ways in the years to come.

Prepared August 25, 1997.
__________________

His body, his choice.
burnsis is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Copyright 2005 - 2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.