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Old 10-05-2012, 06:36 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by qsefthuko
Ask your water company to check the meter. If you don't have any water turned on the meter shouldn't be turning. If it's turning while no one is using any water then you have an undiscovered leak.

Our water bill averaged $80-$100 a month before cloth. Now it averages $130-$150 a month. But this includes more than just diapers. I am home all day now. We went from 4-5 people. My daughter hit her teen years and now takes long showers daily. Plus our water rates went up about the time ds2 was born. We are also using cloth in the kitchen and bathroom now instead paper.
We did that too. :-) It's definitely a usage increase and not a leak.

I was thinkig about it today, and my DS was potty trained at the same time we started cloth with DD. He had been in sposies. Would his increased usage of flushing and hand washing contribute to that? He likes to flush three times... Sort of an OCD thing.

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Old 10-05-2012, 06:45 PM   #22
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Re: How to lower water bill

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*faint*

1080 gallons

Oh dear God...
I went back to your OP to double check my math and I realized I had missed your extra rinse at the end....So it would be more like 1260 gallons on the low end....Just for diapers. And half of those water changes are utilizing your water heater....

I am not trying to make you feel bad, please know that. I am just incredibly frustrated with the cloth diaper industry that sells these crazy microfiber diaper inserts (which aren't even cloth--they are plastic!) and uber-thick fitteds and prefolds that require so much water to launder and electricity to get dry. We as consumers as pulled into thinking we are saving both money and the environment with their cloth diapers, when in truth we are saving neither. I added up what it costs me to wash diapers twice a week without even paying for water (I have a well) and it comes out to $400 over two years. That's not counting the cost of the diapers themselves! I could use walmart sposies for $775 for two years!

I am not trying to discourage CDing as I think it is HUGELY important for environmental reasons. But not if we use 7 water changes for a single load, 3 times a week. I push flats or preflats so we can get back to simple, cheap, green(er) CDing using as few nonrenewable resources as possible--washing on as low a temp as we can and as infrequently as we can, with the least amount of water as we can. Totally realistic with flats or preflats. I have been doing it for 7 years.

Sorry for the hijack. It was aimed at CD makers and their misleading claims, not you . End rant.

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Old 10-05-2012, 06:56 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Melinda29

I went back to your OP to double check my math and I realized I had missed your extra rinse at the end....So it would be more like 1260 gallons on the low end....Just for diapers. And half of those water changes are utilizing your water heater....

I am not trying to make you feel bad, please know that. I am just incredibly frustrated with the cloth diaper industry that sells these crazy microfiber diaper inserts (which aren't even cloth--they are plastic!) and uber-thick fitteds and prefolds that require so much water to launder and electricity to get dry. We as consumers as pulled into thinking we are saving both money and the environment with their cloth diapers, when in truth we are saving neither. I added up what it costs me to wash diapers twice a week without even paying for water (I have a well) and it comes out to $400 over two years. That's not counting the cost of the diapers themselves! I could use walmart sposies for $775 for two years!

I am not trying to discourage CDing as I think it is HUGELY important for environmental reasons. But not if we use 7 water changes for a single load, 3 times a week. I push flats or preflats so we can get back to simple, cheap, green(er) CDing using as few nonrenewable resources as possible--washing on as low a temp as we can and as infrequently as we can, with the least amount of water as we can. Totally realistic with flats or preflats. I have been doing it for 7 years.

Sorry for the hijack. It was aimed at CD makers and their misleading claims, not you . End rant.
I actually appreciate it. :-)

I actually started out with flats and LOVED them, and then in a moment of weirdness I replaced everything with pockets with microfiber. >.<

I've regretted it ever since. I'd go back to flats, but DD is PLing so we're using Gerber undies (which I can hand rinse and throw in with a regular load, or if poopy I can throw in with DS's crazy overnight trainers). Our next babe will be a flat baby for sure, though! I really wanted to love pockets, lol! But they're just not a good fit for us.
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Old 10-05-2012, 07:04 PM   #24
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Re: How to lower water bill

Didnt read all but i agree- soak the diapers in washer for several hours before starting the cycle. Then just rinse once in cold. Thats what we do
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:34 PM   #25
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Re: How to lower water bill

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Originally Posted by Melinda29 View Post
I went back to your OP to double check my math and I realized I had missed your extra rinse at the end....So it would be more like 1260 gallons on the low end....Just for diapers. And half of those water changes are utilizing your water heater....

I am not trying to make you feel bad, please know that. I am just incredibly frustrated with the cloth diaper industry that sells these crazy microfiber diaper inserts (which aren't even cloth--they are plastic!) and uber-thick fitteds and prefolds that require so much water to launder and electricity to get dry. We as consumers as pulled into thinking we are saving both money and the environment with their cloth diapers, when in truth we are saving neither. I added up what it costs me to wash diapers twice a week without even paying for water (I have a well) and it comes out to $400 over two years. That's not counting the cost of the diapers themselves! I could use walmart sposies for $775 for two years!

I am not trying to discourage CDing as I think it is HUGELY important for environmental reasons. But not if we use 7 water changes for a single load, 3 times a week. I push flats or preflats so we can get back to simple, cheap, green(er) CDing using as few nonrenewable resources as possible--washing on as low a temp as we can and as infrequently as we can, with the least amount of water as we can. Totally realistic with flats or preflats. I have been doing it for 7 years.

Sorry for the hijack. It was aimed at CD makers and their misleading claims, not you . End rant.
I totally agree with this in regards to pockets and AIOs. I haven't really thought of this before though, so I would love more information. Right now we are in love with fitteds and a hybrid diaper (shell + several layers of thin, snap-in cotton inserts) at night with our heavy wetter. I've tried prefolds at night and it would take 2 or 3 to absorb all that pee! We mainly use prefolds during the day or single-layer fitteds. But at night I can't imagine using anything thinner.
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:00 PM   #26
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Re: How to lower water bill

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Originally Posted by Melinda29 View Post
I went back to your OP to double check my math and I realized I had missed your extra rinse at the end....So it would be more like 1260 gallons on the low end....Just for diapers. And half of those water changes are utilizing your water heater....

I am not trying to make you feel bad, please know that. I am just incredibly frustrated with the cloth diaper industry that sells these crazy microfiber diaper inserts (which aren't even cloth--they are plastic!) and uber-thick fitteds and prefolds that require so much water to launder and electricity to get dry. We as consumers as pulled into thinking we are saving both money and the environment with their cloth diapers, when in truth we are saving neither. I added up what it costs me to wash diapers twice a week without even paying for water (I have a well) and it comes out to $400 over two years. That's not counting the cost of the diapers themselves! I could use walmart sposies for $775 for two years!

I am not trying to discourage CDing as I think it is HUGELY important for environmental reasons. But not if we use 7 water changes for a single load, 3 times a week. I push flats or preflats so we can get back to simple, cheap, green(er) CDing using as few nonrenewable resources as possible--washing on as low a temp as we can and as infrequently as we can, with the least amount of water as we can. Totally realistic with flats or preflats. I have been doing it for 7 years.

Sorry for the hijack. It was aimed at CD makers and their misleading claims, not you . End rant.
Your math doesn't quite add up though. I tried the Wal-mart cheapies. They didn't even hold a tablespoon of ebf poop without leaking. One poopie leak meant his clothing and whatever he touched had to be washed. This would have lead to 2-3 loads of laundry daily the first 2-3 months after my son was born. On average he was pooping hourly. We did use up the pampers diapers the hospital sent home with us. They sent home 4 full packages of 20 diapers each. He went through a package a day. At that rate the first month would have cost us $300. By the third month of this $900. We wanted to use up some cheap diapers someone had given us so I started in on those. He wore 2 and leaked both times. The diapers didn't even absorb anything. The poop and even the pee just ran out his legs. So using those we would have had increased laundering costs as well as diapering costs. When we added up the costs of huggies or pampers plus wipes without the benefit of coupons(I stink at couponing) it came closer to $3000+. This was figureing that by the time he potty trained the cost would have averaged out to $100 a month. The first 3 months making up for the fewer diapers he would have used the last 6 months before potty training.


Not to say I have anything against flats at all. Most of my diapers are flats. My son is in flats 75% of the time. It does allow us to go 3 days between washing instead of 2 days. Just saying no way would we be able to sposie diaper our son for less than $1000. He is currently almost 16 months old. I figure that as of right now sposies would have cost us around $2200.
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Old 10-06-2012, 05:45 AM   #27
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Re: How to lower water bill

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I could actually try that even just in my washer rather than buckets. We have a small space (less than 500 sq ft, counting storage and laundry room) and itd be almost impossible to keep my kids out of the buckets.

But I could fill our washer to the smallest level with hot & add bleach and soap & agitate for a moment to mix. Then add clothes and just let it soak (rather than agitate on hot with a low water level, which I've discovered promotes pilling).

Then maybe fill it the rest of the way with warm and start that warm/warm/warm cycle...
That's definitely worth a shot!
You would be going straight to step three of your cycle.

Oh, even I cant keep my kids out of the buckets, esp'lly a bucket of soapy, bubbly water. I keep my bucket/s in the bathroom. You could keep them in the tub, empty the bucket out after the soak and take only the wet dipes in the bucket to the w/m.

But, yeah, like you said already, you could do the soak in the washer. BUT drain it after the soak. So there's that much less urine+bleach+soap for the next cycle to clean.

Also,you probably dont need to add bleach every cycle, maybe just the alternate loads. Your sons undies now I think really need bleaching. If they are stinking that much, just handwashing isnt cutting it. You'll probably have to soak them in a small container with bleach and soap.
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Old 10-06-2012, 10:50 AM   #28
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Re: How to lower water bill

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Your math doesn't quite add up though. I tried the Wal-mart cheapies. They didn't even hold a tablespoon of ebf poop without leaking. One poopie leak meant his clothing and whatever he touched had to be washed. This would have lead to 2-3 loads of laundry daily the first 2-3 months after my son was born. On average he was pooping hourly. We did use up the pampers diapers the hospital sent home with us. They sent home 4 full packages of 20 diapers each. He went through a package a day. At that rate the first month would have cost us $300. By the third month of this $900. We wanted to use up some cheap diapers someone had given us so I started in on those. He wore 2 and leaked both times. The diapers didn't even absorb anything. The poop and even the pee just ran out his legs. So using those we would have had increased laundering costs as well as diapering costs. When we added up the costs of huggies or pampers plus wipes without the benefit of coupons(I stink at couponing) it came closer to $3000+. This was figureing that by the time he potty trained the cost would have averaged out to $100 a month. The first 3 months making up for the fewer diapers he would have used the last 6 months before potty training.


Not to say I have anything against flats at all. Most of my diapers are flats. My son is in flats 75% of the time. It does allow us to go 3 days between washing instead of 2 days. Just saying no way would we be able to sposie diaper our son for less than $1000. He is currently almost 16 months old. I figure that as of right now sposies would have cost us around $2200.
It depends on the kid. My oldest and youngest leaked EBF poo out of all sposies, regardless of brand, and never in cloth. My second child could wear any sposie or cloth diaper and never leaked. My third leaked equally out of cloth and sposies. So while I agree with your premise that sposies = more leaks for some kids, in my 7 years of diapering experience walmart cheapies are just as absorbant and Pampers are no better for containing messes. My $775 was assuming 8 walmart diapers and 8 Huggies wipes (because I do see a difference in wipes) per day for 2 years. Of course in the beginning we would use 12 diapers and probably 30 wipes a day, and at the end use 5 diapers and maybe 2 wipes a day, so I just averaged it out. As I wrote earlier, that was my experience using my own electrical bill (which I am sure is different than others') and my children's experiences in sposies. Your situation may be different, but it is frustrating to read CD companies claiming that it will save ALL parents several thousand dollars by just buying their products. I spent only $100 on diapers that were used for all four of my children, and they each got their own $100 worth of OS covers (because the PUL died after 2 solid years of hard use) and between that and wipes, wetbags, and electricity usage, we only saved $200 at most by CDing each of our childen.
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:04 PM   #29
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Re: How to lower water bill

On saving water: I try to maximize our dishwasher loads as well. One things that has really helped has been doing what I can to make sure the dishes are going to get clean. Not saving water at all if I have to rewash or hand wash dishes that didn't come clean. My personal method: Finish Quantum, a little bit of TSP [liquid phosphate], dumping about 2 cups of hot water into the bottom of the dishwasher to prep the pump, turning the kitchen hot water tap on JUST until the water runs hot, then starting the dishwasher. For me, my dishes have gone from having residue, caked on food etc. to being spotless 99.9% of the time unless we were negligent [ahem, DH was negligent] and didn't properly scrape off hard food.

We also follow the "if it's yellow, let it mellow. If it's brown, flush it down" rule.

DH and I shower every second day, sometimes every third day. On the other days I 'spit shine' myself with baby wipes or a soaped up facecloth. Sometimes I wash my hair in the sink OR I use baby powder to degrease my hair. I try to coincide these "sloppy" days with days that I'm not planning to leave the house and have messy housework to do anyway.

The boys get baths 1-2 times a week. They have skin issues from time to time, so this works best for them anyway.

I do large loads of laundry. Only in cold. I make sure that the clothing and items I buy are able to be washed together easily...I tend not to separate whites/colors and I hate buying anything with serious special washing instructions.

As for CD'ing: I think keeping things at the bare minimum can be a money saver and actually benefit the environment, but in general CD'ing is no more or less thrifty or good for the environment than using sposies. At the bare minimum we're talking an extra few loads of laundry per week [sometimes requiring several washes on different cycles]. Then there is wash to buy, usually special detergent. Then there is the issue of drying CD's esp. in the winter and a lot of people DO turn to the dryer. I think the thought it a nice one and I'm sure CD's are MUCH better on our LO's bottoms, but I'm not so sure that there are really any money savings in CD'ing.

As for disposables, I've used them exclusively on both of my kiddos. I really really intended to CD DS2, but we moved and had no easy access to a washer/dryer. Between the two boys we've used Pampers, Huggies and every major Canadian store brand [Presiden't Choice, Teddy's Choice, Wal-Mart brand]. We've also used Seventh Generation and other 'green' diapers. While some are softer than others, and some are generally more absorbant, they've pretty much all performed the same. I think each child has had a handful of leaks EACH, all at toddler age when more rambunctious and active or when a diaper change has been overlooked by DH. Neither have had a serious diaper rash, in fact the only sort of irritation they've has has been due to something they've ate not sitting well [citrus, usually]. I often hear/read about people complaining about diaper rashes and their poor LO's, but we've never had a problem. Of course all kids are different...some would be more sensitive to the chemicals used in sposies and others would be super soakers and more prone to leaks.

I think anyone interested in CD'ing should read up on it and give it a try if they like what they read, but I don't think it's as big a money/environment saver as it's made out to be.
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:55 PM   #30
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I think it is unfair to generalize it and say they don't save money. While that may be true for some, it certainly is not true for us. Our water rarely goes over the minimum, and we are a family of soon to be seven with one in diapers full time and two at night. Even when we had three in diapers, our water bill did not go up. I do buy the bum genius soap, but that costs me less than $10 a month. I also do not dry my diapers, even in winter. Even if I did, I do not believe it would cost $30+ a month, and disposables would be at least $40 every month (we've used disposables in the past, we ALWAYS had leaks with cheap ones, and the Costco brand are $40 a box here). So, I pay really less than 1/4 the cost I would with disposables (that would only be for the one in them full time, every other month or so I'm sure I'd be buying a different size for nighttime on the other two kids). Come December we will have two in cloth full time again, and will wash just as often, so we will then be paying less than 1/8 the cost. $10 for special soap verses $80 for diapers.

Oh, and because I have spent, all together, less than $500 on my diapers, and have every thing the newbie will need birth-potty training, my cloth paid for itself a LONG time ago (been using the diapers almost four years). :thumpsup:
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