To vax, or not to vax

[erlyjo]

Originally Posted by canadianbakers I just think it's silly to use that tactic - sure, don't vax, but your kid might DIE! It's a horrible thing. Trust me, I'm not belittling infant/child death. AT ALL. But, sometimes kids die. Vaxing and doing everything "right" sometimes doesn't make any difference at all. You just make the best choices for your family. I think it was the HIB... but I'm not sure. I'm trying to think of which ones they get 4 shots of - DPTP/HIB are the only ones (2, 4, 6 & 18 months) I think. If it's between those 2, it definitely wasn't the DPTP. But definitely don't quote me on it! You could always google for vaccination schedules, you'll find different ones for different ages, delaying or not. I do know that in some European and Asian countries they don't even start vaxing until the kids are 2 years... I think Japan is even older? Anyways, there are less reactions and the kids need fewer shots - both in my books! FTR, I'm not totally against vaxing, lol. Like if we were travelling I would definitely be getting vaxes for the important things, kwim?

Thanks! I'll look those up!

I'm not pro- or anti-vaxing really. I just think you should be prudent about what you put in your body, vaccine or otherwise. If we're low risk for something, there's no point in overloading their tiny bodies with substances that we can't really know the long term effects of.

[mibarra]

Plenty of people talk about vaxing and their children having issues. There are also plenty of non-vaxers who's children have issues. We fully vax, and both my girls are very healthy. DD1 (3) has been seriously sick (like fever/doctor sick) maybe 4 times in her life. DD2 (21 months), also fully vaxed, has been sick once, 3 weeks after she started daycare. I personally don't feel like vaxed children are any 'more sick' than unvaxed. I just think there are way too many interactive factors (like lifestyle, genetic predisposition, general overall health, exposure, etc) to say this one thing makes a definitive difference, ya know? But I'm all for doing your own research and coming to your own conclusions based on unbiased information! Good luck!

[ajane]

Originally Posted by erlyjo Here's what I mean by living in a bubble. He told me I should not take her out. Not to the store, not to church, not anywhere where there are crowds. He also told me I would have to keep my older siblings away from her since they could bring home germs and make her sick. I can't live like that! I'll have to look into the Dr Sears book. I just want factual, non-biased info, which is so hard to discern these days. It seems like everyone has an agenda.

I'm so sorry mama. I'm pro vax and that is the MOST ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

[Ellasundies]

In addition to what others have said about your new doc being ridiculous for suggesting to keep your kid Ina a bubble... I would be very Leary of any doctor who says they loose one non-vax'ed kid per year. Vaccine preventable diseases for the most part are pretty rare. To have one death per year, or even every 5 years would be a lot. Personally I think he either has no clue or is lying to you. Too bad you didn't ask what disease they die from.

[Kiliki]

Originally Posted by erlyjo Here's what I mean by living in a bubble. He told me I should not take her out. Not to the store, not to church, not anywhere where there are crowds. He also told me I would have to keep my older siblings away from her since they could bring home germs and make her sick. I can't live like that! I'll have to look into the Dr Sears book. I just want factual, non-biased info, which is so hard to discern these days. It seems like everyone has an agenda.

oh. my. word.

That doctor is pressuring you and trying to scare you into doing something you are not comfortable with.

I'm actually really SHOCKED that any medical professional would ever say such a thing. That is really, REALLY far-fetched. Like, off the charts, in never-never land, way out in left field, wearing an aluminum cap to keep the aliens out GARBAGE.

What a total jerk.

I don't think it's too much to ask for a doctor to discuss risks/benefits with you (for anything not jut vaxes) and you should be allowed to make a choice you are comfortable with, even one that the doctor may personally not agree with.

Originally Posted by Ellasundies In addition to what others have said about your new doc being ridiculous for suggesting to keep your kid Ina a bubble... I would be very Leary of any doctor who says they loose one non-vax'ed kid per year. Vaccine preventable diseases for the most part are pretty rare. To have one death per year, or even every 5 years would be a lot. Personally I think he either has no clue or is lying to you. Too bad you didn't ask what disease they die from.

yes, yes, yes. I think he's lying.

...I also just want to tell you OP that I am also not ANTI-vax or PRO-vax, I am just not doing the vaxes right now, as I don't think they are necessary RIGHT NOW. In 3 yrs, we might.

What a PP said about kids needing far less vaxes the older they get is spot on. Most vaxes are for childhood illnesses.

And finally, I just want to echo the PP who pointed out that exposure to germs is a GOOD thing for a healthy immune system and that vaccines are not the only (or best!) way to prevent illnesses and diseases. Good hygiene and a good diet go a long, long way, but they don't make anyone any money, so no one really "sells" it like they do vaccines.

Anyway, It's not an easy choice, but it's an important one, and it's one you can't reverse, so be sure you are completely comfortable with WHATEVER you choose - vaxes or not.

[canadianbakers]

I was talking to DH about this thread, and he (being him, lol) started looking up the number of cases of those diseases we vaccinate against - like how many cases each year, kwim?
Anyways, overall, in a normal year (no outbreak) the numbers of confirmed cases were really low - like 10-20. And those are just cases, not fatalities. So deaths would be lower numbers.

Now, seriously, how damn likely is it that each year one of those very few kids who had a confirmed case of one of those diseases died from that Ped's clinic.
Seriously.
AND, if that actually is true - WTF is wrong with that Ped or his office?!!! I'd be running for the hills rather than have my kid be his patient!

[erlyjo]

Reading everyone's comments and thinking on the conversation I had with the doc is making me more angry and suspicious by the minute. I thought I has found a good doctor, but I will not tolerate being lied to when it comes to my kids' health. I just don't know if I have the energy to change doctors yet again. We've already been through 3 pediatricians this year.

[canadianbakers]

I know it can be frustrating to find a Dr that is a good fit for you and your family. It really sounds like this guy is not a good fit. Yes, sure, he said he's okay with you making different choices about vaxing, but yet he's using scare tactics and outright lying to force you into changing your mind and doing what he wants.
That isn't being respectful of your choices at all. It's just being manipulative.

For example, with DS1 when we delayed - we went to the Dr for his 4 month check and shots, we told our Dr about the reactions he had showed at his previous vaccines, and we said we would prefer holding off on anymore shots until later. The Dr said "okay, that's totally your choice." and that was it. No mention of kids dying or living in a bubble.
He did mention shots at the other checks after that, but once we said that we were still waiting he would just say "okay" and leave it at that.
And that's how a good Dr would be. Unless I outright ask for his opinion on something, I expect not to hear it!

Another example, though with my OB - my first appt with him when pregnant with Levi he asked what my plans were for that birth (had had a c-sec with previous pregnancy). I said "Definitely VBAC", he said "Okay" - and nothing else was mentioned. No scare tactics or "facts" about uterine rupture or never going overdue or having to be extra careful. Nothing.
Again, that's how a good Dr would handle it. Even if he disagrees with your choices, a professional should know to separate his feelings and opinions from his work.

[thtr4me]

Originally Posted by erlyjo The new pediatrician says he is ok with parents who choose not to vaccinate, but related scary stories about how at least one kid from their practice dies every year because they weren't vaccinated, and how if we choose to not vaccinate the baby, we basically have to live in a bubble so she doesn't get exposed to anything.

This is absolutely NOT a doc who is okay with parents not vaccinating. He is trying to make you think he is on your side while at the same time attempting to scare you into vaccinating. I would tell this doctor to stuff it and find someone new. Look into a family practice. Much more laid back about vaccines.

And he is totally full of poo (I wanted to use much stronger language) saying you have to live in a bubble. Go about your life, take your wee one out, let your DD be around her siblings. You do NOT have to be afraid of exposing her to germs. It is good for her and will stimulate a strong and healthy immune system.

ETA: Read more responses, and please please please consider looking for a family practice doc!!!!

[ajane]

Originally Posted by thtr4me This is absolutely NOT a doc who is okay with parents not vaccinating. He is trying to make you think he is on your side while at the same time attempting to scare you into vaccinating. I would tell this doctor to stuff it and find someone new. Look into a family practice. Much more laid back about vaccines. And he is totally full of poo (I wanted to use much stronger language) saying you have to live in a bubble. Go about your life, take your wee one out, let your DD be around her siblings. You do NOT have to be afraid of exposing her to germs. It is good for her and will stimulate a strong and healthy immune system. ETA: Read more responses, and please please please consider looking for a family practice doc!!!!

Totally agree.