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Old 10-07-2012, 06:00 AM   #51
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Re: Is it possible to parent your children without lying to them? Do you try?

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Originally Posted by RainandRedemption View Post
To the bolded~ I agree with the first statement but not the second

With your ds, I don't think redirecting or ignoring a question is lying. If he never said he didn't then I would think you DS will come back later and say "remember I asked you this? you didn't answer"

With your mom, I don't think what you told her is lying.

The news story... Idk what I would do. I try to avoid listening to stories like that and most of the time don't get all the details. Hopefully I would truthfully be able to say "I don't know exactly what they did/how she died"
Laughing at the bolded. It is so true. This all comes down to what we each believe to be a lie. To me, when someone asks me a direct question and I don't give all the information I know, it is a lie. I am ok with that kind of lie, because they are generally done with a true heart, if that makes sense. Those lies are to protect someone, usually. On a lighter note from my other examples, I am planning a surprise party for DH's 40th. I have lied to my kids, my DH, his mom. I have lied all over the place. But it is for good.

I think it really does come down to semantics and our own personal beliefs. If you want to be a black and white non-liar, you pretty much have to tell yourself that omitting and editing information is not a lie. Otherwise, it would be very difficult to live life. If you believe omitting and editing is lying, then you pretty much have to tell yourself that some lies are okay.

Great topic, BTW, OP.

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Old 10-07-2012, 07:47 AM   #52
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Re: Is it possible to parent your children without lying to them? Do you try?

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For the "I am not going to talk about this right now" not only would dd not take that as an answer (I always answer her questions and if I don't know the answer I say I don't know)I would give that as an answer. She has an insane memory and it will come back up over and over again until she is satisfied.

And the other- Not my dd either. She wants to know everything right then and she always has. But in general we nice up (or withhold some details) and tell her everything she wants to know- which is everything.

I am not sure what we do is lying but I do feel withholding info is not honest. Even with Santa and such we play it out but we never answer yes or no to is he real questions- we ask dd what she thinks. Same for unicorns and mermaids. We do give her history on those things. But even by not saying yes or no to existence we are lying by omission. We are letting her believe in something (and in some cases supporting the lie) that we know isn't real because it makes her happy.
See, I'll do the same thing with unicorns, mermaids and such! And I don't consider it lying. IDK why I don't understand the lying by omission but it doesn't make sense to me. The santa thing would be different, I would have to say things like "know lets put the cookies out for santa" or "here, this present is from santa."
On easter they wake up to a house full of hidden chocolate and easter baskets, so they could believe in the easter bunny if they wanted to. But I say a lot of things like "there's no easter bunny its just a game", or "well you know that's just a guy a suit right?" . So they would have to be really determined to believe in the EB. (when I say this I am not crushing them or anything, the bunny suit guys always scare the he77 outta my kids)
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:02 AM   #53
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Re: Is it possible to parent your children without lying to them? Do you try?

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it's possible. i don't lie to my kids ever or withhold info to give a false perspective. saying, "i'm not comfortable discussing that right now" is the truth
Exactly.
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:45 AM   #54
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Re: Is it possible to parent your children without lying to them? Do you try?

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Laughing at the bolded. It is so true. This all comes down to what we each believe to be a lie. To me, when someone asks me a direct question and I don't give all the information I know, it is a lie. I am ok with that kind of lie, because they are generally done with a true heart, if that makes sense. Those lies are to protect someone, usually. On a lighter note from my other examples, I am planning a surprise party for DH's 40th. I have lied to my kids, my DH, his mom. I have lied all over the place. But it is for good.

I think it really does come down to semantics and our own personal beliefs. If you want to be a black and white non-liar, you pretty much have to tell yourself that omitting and editing information is not a lie. Otherwise, it would be very difficult to live life. If you believe omitting and editing is lying, then you pretty much have to tell yourself that some lies are okay.

Great topic, BTW, OP.
I agree with this. I admit, I do lie, many times to not hurt someone's feelings. Like with the teacher I work with. No one really likes her because, well, she doesn't like to work. Lazy, gossips, etc. And one day she asked "I feel like the other ladies don't like me." Now mind you she WAS fishing for information
I straight up lied and said "Nah, I don't think so." I get very frustrated with her too but I do not like to hurt feelings and tend to avoid conflict.

And yeah I leave out things by omission, and heck I do lie sometimes when after 20 rounds of "why mom, why mom, why mom, why mom.." keep coming even after I try to "truthfully explain" something...so I'll just say "Oh it's closed today" or something similar to whatever the situation is.
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:56 AM   #55
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Re: Is it possible to parent your children without lying to them? Do you try?

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I agree with this. I admit, I do lie, many times to not hurt someone's feelings. Like with the teacher I work with. No one really likes her because, well, she doesn't like to work. Lazy, gossips, etc. And one day she asked "I feel like the other ladies don't like me." Now mind you she WAS fishing for information
I straight up lied and said "Nah, I don't think so." I get very frustrated with her too but I do not like to hurt feelings and tend to avoid conflict.

And yeah I leave out things by omission, and heck I do lie sometimes when after 20 rounds of "why mom, why mom, why mom, why mom.." keep coming even after I try to "truthfully explain" something...so I'll just say "Oh it's closed today" or something similar to whatever the situation is.
"oh its closed today"...yes!

My mom lied to us all the time and I hated it. "If you don't go to bed, the boogie man is going to get you." "If you whistle after 7, it's calls all the ghosts to you." "If you get out of bed at night, the monsters that live under your bed will wake up."

Anything she didn't want to talk about she said, "you're too young to understand." she used that up until I was done with college. For example, when my parents were getting a divorce (and no one told us about it) I asked where dad was going and she said I was too young to understand. So I had no idea what was going on for a long time.

I think it's better to be honest with kids whenever possible.
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Old 10-07-2012, 10:22 AM   #56
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Re: Is it possible to parent your children without lying to them? Do you try?

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"oh its closed today"...yes!

My mom lied to us all the time and I hated it. "If you don't go to bed, the boogie man is going to get you." "If you whistle after 7, it's calls all the ghosts to you." "If you get out of bed at night, the monsters that live under your bed will wake up."

Anything she didn't want to talk about she said, "you're too young to understand." she used that up until I was done with college. For example, when my parents were getting a divorce (and no one told us about it) I asked where dad was going and she said I was too young to understand. So I had no idea what was going on for a long time.

I think it's better to be honest with kids whenever possible.
I will say, I don't like the scary lying like that. Because I was always a 'fraidy cat' myself!
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Old 10-07-2012, 11:43 AM   #57
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Re: Is it possible to parent your children without lying to them? Do you try?

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I do think it is possible to parent without lying *intentionally.* You may unintentionally lie by saying "we're going to the zoo tomorrow" and then it's raining cats and dogs. I try to even aviod that by saying "we will probably go to the zoo tomorrow." I do try my very best to parent without lying at all. I don't want people to lie to me, and I don't want to lie to my children. It's a respect issue to me.
I don't think that's lying. To me, you told the truth, but unfortunately it just work the way you thought it would. However, that said, because we have 5 (almost 6) kids, I tend to wait till the very last minute to tell my kids anything. You just never know when someone is going to get sick or whatever. So, I'll literally wait till the day of to tell them. We may have been planning for months to go to the zoo that day, but purposely wait till we wake them up in the morning to say "Hey, get dressed quickly. We are going to the zoo!!!" (Usually, if it's something big like the zoo, which is a 2 hr drive from us, we tell them as they are going to bed the night before, but things like playdates or Nana coming over, I wait till the morning of.) But, that's to avoid disappointment not avoid "accidentally" lying. I don't really think you can accidentally lie. I think you can be mistaken, but that's not a lie. If you sincerely thought it was true, it wasn't a lie.
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Old 10-07-2012, 12:14 PM   #58
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Re: Is it possible to parent your children without lying to them? Do you try?

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See, I'll do the same thing with unicorns, mermaids and such! And I don't consider it lying. IDK why I don't understand the lying by omission but it doesn't make sense to me.
I think it falls under the withholding thing. Yes we're letting them make up their minds, but we are intentionally withholding info and the truth so they can come to their own conclusion. If they come to the conclusion that they do exist then we have withheld info that perpetuates a lie.

Like Geckmumto3 said we have different ideas of what is a lie. I was raised as anything that is not the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth than its a lie. But I was also raised that all lying isn't bad. Some is for fun and mystery (santa, unicorns, mermaids), some for protection and sense of well being (the dog went to a new home- by my raising that is a lie because its not the whole truth. Its actually not one I tell either- we say things die and answer questions because I feel being open about death may deter fear), some are to foster self esteem and to be polite (That is a nice hair cut- unless I am really good friends with a person no way, no how am I telling them their hair cut is bad. I try to avoid the topic all together if I don't like it, because really unless I can fix it or its some really close to me- I am not going to hurt someones feelings).

There are some things my mom was way too honest about to the point that it actually held me back from doing some stuff. I don't think that is healthy. There can be a healthy medium.
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Old 10-07-2012, 12:21 PM   #59
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Re: Is it possible to parent your children without lying to them? Do you try?

I totally see what you're saying. I guess to me lying has negative implications (my dad stressed to me that lying is the worst thign you can do), so I feel that lying is something you do with an intention to convey falsehood, and that there is a bit of "guilt" that goes along with that. If that makes any sense. Just the way it has become in my own mind over the years.
But to me, imagination is one of the most important tools you can have and use to get you through life and stay happy. yk? So "withholding" information so a kid can use their imagination and the experience the beauty that comes along with that can only be a good thing, and I wouldn't attach that "stigma" of having told a lie because something was withheld.

So interesting how differently everyone sees things like this!
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Old 10-07-2012, 12:41 PM   #60
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Re: Is it possible to parent your children without lying to them? Do you try?

Yeah I think its the word lie that causes a problem because we are taught that lying is bad, because our parents don't want us to lie to them. Then we learn or are taught that white lies are ok, because they make feel people feel good or safe or whatever. But most people don't want to connect "that hair cut is cute" (when its not) to a lie. Its considered an acceptable lie. Just like most parents don't want to consider themselves liars because they do Santa. If we're completely honest with ourselves it is lying, but because most people like it, its an acceptable lie.
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