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Old 10-10-2012, 10:35 PM   #31
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Re: Vaccines

Originally Posted by Kiliki View Post
We do not vax at all.

This is b/c I find it difficult to find a ped who will talk to me about vaxes without being fear-mongering. Even our ped who doesn't say much about our not vaxing, if I bring it up will bring in 100 pages of crap for me to read and then hand me a list of a ton of vaxes my kids need. I also have to sign a paper for EVERY vax we decline stating that I understand my kids could DIE if we don't vax.

I actually think if I could find a reasonable, non-judgemental pediatrician (w/o a God complex) who would speak to me about vaxes, listen to my concerns and agree to do some but not all of them, I would probably selectively and delay vax.

If I could find that, we'd probably delay all vaxes until at least about 5 y/o. This is b/c most vaxes are for childhood illnesses, and I don't have kids in daycare, who are exposed regularly to a lot of germs or other kids or questionable hygiene practices. Since they are pretty much all the time with me, I keep up with good hygiene, and we try to eat healthy - and I think those two things are great preventative measures for disease, so I am not concerned with them contracting most childhood illnesses.

The vaxes I would like my kids to have at some point are the MMR (I'd like them separated out and not altogether, but I don't even know if that's possible), and the polio vax. Maybe some others I am not thinking of at the moment.

The vaxes I think are completely useless (IMO and accdg to MY research) are the whooping cough vaccine, the flu vaccine and the chicken pox vaccine. In MOST kids with a normal, working, healthy immune system, these illnesses - while not being pleasant or fun at all - are not going to be deadly.

Here are the reasons I feel that way:

Both of my older 2 kids had whooping cough - my oldest is vaxed against it and her case was FAR WORSE than my son's - who is not vaxed against it. I contracted it while pg and I broke a rib coughing. I am vaxed against it.

I've had chicken pox. Twice. Not severe the first time, didn't get a good enough immunity so I caught it again. My brother had it. My mom had it. My Dad had it. My grandmas and grandpas all had it. All my Aunts and Uncles had it. All my cousins had it. IMO it's not deadly unless a person already has a compromised immune system for whatever reason. Uncomfortable? Yes. Deadly? Probably not. I think this vax was created for parents who don't want to sit home from work for 2 wks with kids who have CP.

And the flu vax. Made from last years strains that *might* still be around this year, and *might* not have mutated enough for the vax to be able to prevent it.

I also think it's stupid to vax newborns for an STD that a healthy person knows they don't have and could not possibly pass on to their kids.

Totally useless vaxes. I know I'll get flamed for that, but that's my opinion.

Anyway. there you have it. In a nutshell, we don't vax at all. We probably would if we could find the right pediatrician. But those are few and far between and really hard to come by.
When DS was first born we had such a great pediatrician. He brought up vaccines right before DS was 2 months and when I said I wanted to delay he said "thats fine. I wouldn't see any reason to start them yet anyways. We'll plan to talk about it at the next appointment but not do any." I really hope I can find another pediatrician like him but I'm not holding my breath.


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Old 10-10-2012, 10:55 PM   #32
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Re: Vaccines

Originally Posted by NiNi View Post
It's always easy for people to say that vaxs don't cause issues. When their child has never experienced an issue.

sent from my iPhone. excuse all typos

I saw some funky reactions in my ODD and called her pedi. I was confident beyond any doubt they were caused by the vax. They said "no, that is not a reaction caused by the vax." I took her for another round, same weird reaction. I called again, "Nope, not caused by the vax."

...It was so weird!!! She kept getting sick on the evening of getting vaxed, and then got better within about 72 hours... Isn't that just the strangest thing???

ODD is totally fine, normal, even advanced in some ways. I have no worries about her. All of her reactions were nothing severe. But still, it makes me wonder how many TONS of other side effects go unreported or simply ignored or brushed off.
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:27 AM   #33
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Re: Vaccines

Originally Posted by z2akids View Post
We vaccinate.

If you are interested in my reasons and my opinions on much of the "research" people use to decide not to vaccinate, I have posted in many of the dozens of threads that ask the same question you ask.

There is very little factual scientific information out there that is not supportive of vaccination. Plenty of anecdotal stories and websites like Mercola and others that purport to provide scientific evidence. However, almost every article posted on these blog and non-science sites is distorted or doesn't even follow any sort of scientific process.

Look at the information out there. But, if you do not have a firm understanding of how to read statistics or scientific studies -- ask someone who does before believing whatever you read. I recommend bringing any questions to your doctor. And, if you cannot do that, then I would suggest that it's time to find a new doctor. But, don't be surprised when she shoots down most of the anti-vax arguments because most of them are spurious.
Originally Posted by shen7 View Post
Yes. This.

One example of the difference that comes with understanding the research: looking at a list of vaccine ingredients. In toxicology, the dose makes the poison. Even water can kill you if you drink too much of it. So I have zero interest in an unquantified list of ingredients - what matters is the *dose* (quantity) of each ingredient, and how that dose compares to doses that cause health effects (with several uncertainty factors applied to be conservative).

We fully vaccinate, obviously. In my research, I focused on simply examining the review process that goes into developing the CDC schedule. It is a robust peer review process. Therefore I trust its results. I have also never seen a single anti vax argument that had any scientific merit, they are all rife with logical and statistical errors and conspiracy paranoia. I have a M.S. and worked in eco and health risk assessment in consulting and government for my career prior to becoming a SAHM and so I approached the issue very much as a scientist and number cruncher.

I know that some families do not vaccinate or select/delay due to unusual health concerns like severe allergies or family history of confirmed serious reactions, and I have no quarrel with that. But for other non vax moms, I don't think they are bad moms or have bad intentions, I just think they are wrong on this issue and trusting the wrong sources of information, and/or misunderstanding and misinterpreting the evidence (like being grossed out by ingredient lists).
yep this is us, we fully vaccinate on schedule. The risks of reactions from vaccines are far smaller than the risks of VPD's, easy peasy.
Kelly wife to Rich , mommy to I , G , L , and G
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:55 AM   #34
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We chose not to vaccinate. DS has a milk protein allergy and may have others that we're not aware of yet. I just do not feel comfortable vaccinating at this point though we may do so later. We will not do the whooping cough (DTaP) ever because Autism and SIDS are listed on the excerpt as possibly adverse reactions, that just doesn't sound safe to me. My DH's cousin did not vaccinate her 2 daughters, she breastfed them until they were 2 years old, and only 1 of them has ever had to take antibiotics. They are now teenagers and they are very conscious about washing their hands. Good luck with your research!!
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:03 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by NiNi
It's always easy for people to say that vaxs don't cause issues. When their child has never experienced an issue.

sent from my iPhone. excuse all typos
DD1 has issues and is fully vaxed. I have no reason to suspect and do not believe vaccinations are to blame. My cousin wasn't vaxed and had severe Autism, he was still non-verbal at 12.

I absolutely believe some children react to vaccines. If you have reason to believe your child isn't responding well, then you get to stop. I also believe sometimes parents make associations that a vaccine caused something that didn't, anymore than eating strawberries the day before you get an ear infection is related.

Medical issues are a complex interplay of a variety of factors. It's not always simple cause and effect. And sometimes it is. I don't think anyone on here thinks vaccines are 100% safe for everyone in every situation. There is an unfortunate amount of fear mongering on both sides. It would be nice if someone would start a "Just the Facts" website with only reputable info from both sides, and we all had educated, understanding peds who would discuss it openly and honestly.
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:52 PM   #36
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Re: Vaccines

Originally Posted by A21Lee View Post
B.S. in Biology and Medical Technology and M.S. in Physician Assistant Studies. I vax, on schedule and agree with above. The key benefit of vaccinating everyone is herd immunity. We are protecting each other's children as much as our own. If my kid is vaccinated against a disease, I'm keeping your child from getting the disease as well. The hope is that the protection is mutually beneficial. Safety in numbers. For every child that is not vaccinated, it puts everyone at risk because the outbreaks are still possible. This is the reason medical professionals find it difficult to agree with parents that refuse vaccination. It goes against everything they are taught in school. It's not personal. It's just one very simple way to protect children from getting very serious diseases (that are so easily preventable).
DH has his PhD in biochemistry and has a brother who is 9 years younger then him who had severe non-communitive autism (now Aspergers) and his mother got her master's in child psych from John Hopkins with an emphasis on childhood autism (this was in the mid 1975's before it was the epidemic we see today and before her own son who had it, was even conceived).

We have always vaccinated on schedule. Even our micro-preemie DD (God rest her soul) was vaccinated on schedule. I didn't realize how important this was until I asked to get the H1N1 at the same time as my son as I hoped to be TTC that January (think we got the Vaccine in november). I got diagnosed with lymphoma that December and thanks to my son being fully vaccinated, and with me being careful with him and me that winter, I didn't die when I had no immune system. If I would have waited to get the H1N1 in December, I wouldn't have been able to get it.

I had chicken pox as a child. I was about 10 years old and I remember it well (even though I don't have many other memories of being 10). Chicken Pox was one of the vaccines that I was debating not giving my son. DH wanted me to, but I was unsure. I finally had him convince me to do it and BOY am I glad. Turns out my immunity to chicken pox has been in a steady decline since about 2000. I have the lab work results to show it. I was at an immunity of 3.8 in May of 2000. In June of 2012 I was at an immunity of 1 (which is neither immune nor not immune). I was going to get the vaccine but decided to see my oncologist first. BOY was that good thing! Turns out I am one of the people that is dependent on herd immunity. I can't get the vaccine because people with a history of Lymphoma are dying from it (sadly this isn't on the CDC's mandated questions that they ask before administering the vaccine either!!!). There is an ongoing clinical trial to figure out why this is happening, but until they figure it out, I can't get the vaccine. I have to rely on my son's immunity and me being careful not to get sick.

My BIL autism wasn't caused by vaccines. I married into a very big research oriented family. If there was ANY question that vaccines and autism were related, I am sure they would have found it (FIL has a PhD and several other degrees). To me it should speak volumes that we vaccine despite this being in DH's family history.

Good luck in your decision.
Jennifer (38) - Wife since 12/2003 with 5 children - 3 waiting for me in heaven , and 2 delighting me everyday ! Lymphoma survivor and mother to baby born post pelvic radiation!
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:35 PM   #37
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Re: Vaccines

Originally Posted by NiNi View Post
It's always easy for people to say that vaxs don't cause issues. When their child has never experienced an issue.

sent from my iPhone. excuse all typos
EXACTLY! I have a vaccine injured child. As a medical professional I have seen far too many vaccine injured children to just brush it off as "fluke". I have attended TWO funerals for healthy babies who died within hours of their shots. I have attempted resuscitation on several more (as a member of the trauma team in the ER) that died within 24 hours of vaccination. There is just too much evidence out there to suggest that these vaccines are certainly not as safe as the great pharma would lead us to believe.

Once I got to investigating the ingredients in vaccines and their health warnings, I decided that there was NO WAY on earth I was allowing those poisons to be directly injected into their bodies. I say all the time "If I wouldn't put it in my baby's bottle, I won't have it injected into their bloodstream".
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:35 PM   #38
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Re: Vaccines

We have a family history of vaccine reactions including my own. DS1 was mainly vaxed on schedule, but when we did a booster last year, he had a reaction and will not get any more for a long time. We did not do MMR or chicken pox specifically because of the family history with those particular vaxes. HPV also now has a reaction history in my family, although that one was never and would never have been on my list of ones to consider, even without that reaction.

DS2 has had one polio, and one Dtap so far, with no reactions. We have been a little lax in seeing the doc lately, so that is all he has had for know. I do want to make sure he gets protection for tetanus, so we may do more Dtap in the future. Not sure on polio, but likely a booster when he is a bit older. Those are the only ones that I had on my list of ones to consider. I looked at my own vaccine records to see what was given back then, as well as the family history of vaccine reactions to come up with a list of possible vaccines. And after looking into info in the Pink Book, it came down to those 2 vaccines as the ones that were important to me.

If my DSs have not had chicken pox, mumps and measles by the time they hit puberty, I will make a joint decision with them on whether they get those vaccines at that time. Since it is their bodies, I believe they have the right to have a say in the decision.
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:29 PM   #39
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Re: Vaccines

At this time, we do not vaccinate. I am literally always reading more on the subject (as in every day) and if I ever feel comfortable vaccinating, then I will. I just don't feel comfortable with it at this time.

I have a pediatrician who is supportive of our decision.
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:01 PM   #40
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Re: Vaccines

we don't vax. at all. religious reasons. even if we didn't have r/e, we still wouldn't vax for many many reasons. I don't put chemicals in my children's body to maybe prevent something from maybe possibly happening, esp when there are alternatives to treat if they DO contract any of the vaccinatable (is that a word?) diseases.
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