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Old 10-18-2012, 09:14 AM   #51
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Re: Angry.. another "nursing in church" vent...

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Originally Posted by waterisntsomething View Post
http://bible.cc/matthew/21-12.htm

I wouldn't call this behavior by Jesus gracious.
If you actually read anything other than this passage you would know that you used it completely out of context.

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Old 10-18-2012, 09:19 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by delicatefade

Then you misunderstand being gracious. You are gracious to someone else who is being an idiot. It has nothing to do with you, but you extend that grace because God calls us to love one another.
At some point, you have to stand up for your kids, period.
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Old 10-18-2012, 09:24 AM   #53
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Re: Angry.. another "nursing in church" vent...

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Have you ever read the Bible? Breasts are talked about in a sexual way many times in the Bible. They are also talked about for feeding babies too. You can't just ignore the sexuality of breasts. God created men with those desires and attraction to breasts. It would be just as wrong to tell them that they are not sexual.
In the Bible, breasts are mentioned in a sexual sense seven times. In the context of breastfeeding? Twenty-four times. I don't know much about hermeneutics, but I know enough to recognize that this is significant. Anytime the Bible uses a word in a specific context like this a huge majority of the time, then you can assume that is the most important and "normal" interpretation of the word. When breasts are used for breastfeeding 24 out of 31 times, it's safe to say that the Bible considers the primary use of breasts is to breastfeed, and sexuality trails behind.

I agree that you can't ignore the sexual aspect, but people need to get over themselves and start thinking of boobs more as milk bags. lol. It's all about the culture we live in, I tell ya.
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Old 10-18-2012, 09:32 AM   #54
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Re: Angry.. another "nursing in church" vent...

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In the Bible, breasts are mentioned in a sexual sense seven times. In the context of breastfeeding? Twenty-four times. I don't know much about hermeneutics, but I know enough to recognize that this is significant. Anytime the Bible uses a word in a specific context like this a huge majority of the time, then you can assume that is the most important and "normal" interpretation of the word. When breasts are used for breastfeeding 24 out of 31 times, it's safe to say that the Bible considers the primary use of breasts is to breastfeed, and sexuality trails behind.

I agree that you can't ignore the sexual aspect, but people need to get over themselves and start thinking of boobs more as milk bags. lol. It's all about the culture we live in, I tell ya.
But this also verifies they are indeed sexual. I believe we should not do things knowing that we are causing another to sin, even if what I am doing is not necessarily a sin. So, if my bfing in front of someone causes them to have lustful thoughts then I would try not to do that in front of that particular person because I think we all have a hard time controlling our thoughts sometimes. I wish more people thought of breasts as a food source, but sadly some can not get past the sexual aspect, so as a Christian I do not want to intentionally do something that leads them to sin.
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Old 10-18-2012, 09:40 AM   #55
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Re: Angry.. another "nursing in church" vent...

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If you actually read anything other than this passage you would know that you used it completely out of context.
I don't believe you know what I have read or what I have not read. Because I did not provide the context does not mean I used it out of context. Further I doubt you have applied anything other than the words directly from the "good" book to allow for your understanding of the text within.

Jesus walked into the temple which had become what he called "a den of thieves" which is what the "clergy" had turned it into. He was outraged by the act of charging people outrageous prices for sacrifices that were meant to be gifts. This practice of extorting people had been allowed because at the time the temples, as well as religions, were controlled by the state. His actions, which in no way were gracious, were against the organized state ran temple.

This is why shortly after Pontious Pilate gave the crowd the choice between Barabbas, a notable prisoner, and Jesus who in modern times would be considered a terrorist for acts against the state.

The answer to be gracious is not always the correct one. When there are injustices allowed by tradition and fear the correct answer is to act in a way that will cause noble change.

To suggest that the OP should act graciously while being wronged is cowardly and comes from a place that allows for the many atrocities that have happened throughout the world. The correct answer is public dissent. I suggest that she stand and give testimony to the entire congregation, and if the entire congregation shows disdain for her thoughts and actions then she should find a more loving church.
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Old 10-18-2012, 09:50 AM   #56
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Re: Angry.. another "nursing in church" vent...

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But this also verifies they are indeed sexual. I believe we should not do things knowing that we are causing another to sin, even if what I am doing is not necessarily a sin. So, if my bfing in front of someone causes them to have lustful thoughts then I would try not to do that in front of that particular person because I think we all have a hard time controlling our thoughts sometimes. I wish more people thought of breasts as a food source, but sadly some can not get past the sexual aspect, so as a Christian I do not want to intentionally do something that leads them to sin.
I ask this respectfully...but do you wear a burqa? Because some men claim (as this man/his wife is doing) that a woman's eyes/hair/etc. cause him to have sexual thoughts.
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Old 10-18-2012, 10:05 AM   #57
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Re: Angry.. another "nursing in church" vent...

With regard to nursing in biblical times and women's status at the time, women were not considered "lower than dirt," at least not in Jewish culture. While they may not have been afforded the same rights as men, they still had rights. Also, bear in mind that ALL babies were breastfed at the time - bottles and formula didn't exist. So, if a woman were out with her baby in the synagogue or other religious event (feast days, etc) there would be women nursing their babies. Furthermore, just to further illustrate the ridiculousness of this situation, in modern cultures where women are required to be covered from head to toe, breastfeeding mothers nurse openly in public in mixed companies with their boobs more uncovered than most Western women do while nursing. If these cultures who seem to sexualize a woman's entire body can understand that breastfeeding is not sexual, surely we, who consider ourselves "enlightened" can come to the same conclusion.

To the OP, I'm sorry that you're having to deal with this. One would hope that adults would be able to behave in a more mature fashion. Hopefully your situation will serve as a lesson to people and will make so that other nursing mothers won't encounter the same issues later on. I hope in your meeting that your husband backs you 100% and that the pastor sees things your way. Good luck.
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Old 10-18-2012, 10:34 AM   #58
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Re: Angry.. another "nursing in church" vent...

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I ask this respectfully...but do you wear a burqa? Because some men claim (as this man/his wife is doing) that a woman's eyes/hair/etc. cause him to have sexual thoughts.
I am not sure how to say what I believe but I will try. I apply this to intentional acts. Not things that are out of our control, for example our appearance. Some people will find something to lust after no matter what we do. But if I do something intentionally and I know that it will cause someone else to sin I try to avoid it if reasonable (like, I wouldn't bf in front of this man because I know the consequences for him). Now, if he said he is turned on by hair, something he is constantly exposed to I would, say he needs to find his own way to cope because that is not something in my religion that is considered immodest to have exposed.

These are my personal beliefs. I understand we all have our own beliefs and I am not judging anyone for feeling different, but as a fellow Christian I can see the man and his wife's side as well as the OP. Yes, it is sad he has self control issues and she can't do something as natural as bf her child in front of him, but I personally would not want to be the reason he stumbles when it is something I can control atm.

You are entitled to believe otherwise, I realize that there are more liberal churches than mine but as I said, this is my personal belief.
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Old 10-18-2012, 10:43 AM   #59
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Re: Angry.. another "nursing in church" vent...

Good grief. I think this thread is getting a bit off track!

OP I hope that you and your pastor find a way for you to feed your baby without dirupting your worship or that of your fellow parishioners.

As to the current discussion. I agree that Christian women have some responsibility as our brothers' keepers. We have a responsibility to be discreet and modest in our sexuality and certainly to not expose our sex organs to a weak minded man. Breasts are sex organs and I don't think it is too much to ask to keep them covered during worship in the presence of a man who has expressed his need for it, BUT breastfeeding is not a sexual act. If a man has impure thoughts from the mere idea of a woman breastfeeding without ever seeing breasts or any sexual act than that is HIS PERVERSION and ******! If we as christian women gave reverence to every possible perversion and ****** than where will it stop?

Who knew feti$h wash a censor-worthy word
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Old 10-18-2012, 10:45 AM   #60
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Re: Angry.. another "nursing in church" vent...

I am so sorry for the behavior of your church fellows. My church has been very open to nursing during service. Sure beats trying to hear over a fussing baby! Most folks just focus on the service. I always used a cover, not for shame of nursing, more because I was embarrassed to have my chub hanging out the sides. Folks always said good morning and chatted with me as usual.

I am sure Mary was nursing Jesus when so many came to visit at the birth ;-)
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