Update in OP 11/4 What would you do?

[mommy2kaitlyn]

Originally Posted by 2boysmama I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to have a girl but this post sure makes me thankful for my 3 boys! OP, I totally understand trying to teach her something, I really do BUT I have a really hard time with this. ToT is once a year. She IS a child. She probably won't want to go in a couple years and this part of her childhood is over. It makes me sad to think she won't get to go over a costume. If you feel the need to have her 'pay' somehow then can you make her work off the cost of the costume and tell her to get creative because you won't be buying one now or even next year? I'm not sure what your religious views are but sometimes (in my family) we choose to show our children grace. We all screw up, we all sin, and yet God shows us grace, gives us second, third, fourth or more chances, yes there are natural consequences but there is also love and grace. Please let your dd go ToTing. Maybe have her donate half her candy to one of the collection sites to send overseas for our military or something. One day she will look back on this, probably when she is facing a similar situation with one of her own kids. Will she remember that she was punished and was forced to stay home or will she have memories of walking down the street, hand in hand with her mama in their matching black cat costumes...ah grace, I hope my kids have more memories of that for sure.

I see where your coming from. I have given her a ton of Grace. This child does not learn without being very stern and even then it is a 50/50 chance. Even before the $20 was lost for sure, she told me last night she was planning to buy Christmas gifts with it. Not buying another costume. Obviously ToTing isn't important to her. She was given into way to much by her father, I think that is why she is hard to give a lesson to.

Example of recent, I told her to stop turning the fan on high, only low was allowed. So then I go in and it is on high, because she turned it on high I said no fan the next night. She turned it on medium, her thought was compromise, but yet I had said no fan! BTW We didn't need the fan it is for white noise I think and it makes the room an iceberg. She keeps even her head covered when it is on high!
So now I have to take the fan out and deal with her fit.
She just doesn't listen/learn the traditional way of easy natural consequences. Most kids would think hey I got freezing cold I am turning it off or on low. Yeah this girl does not.

I wish I could give her ToTing but unless she comes up with her costume she won't be going. I will go with her to her schools fall party during the day on Halloween and if no costume she will stay home with me. She won't learn if she gets to go ToTing. I know I wouldn't have learned a thing either. ToTing is a privilege not a right, IMO.

BTW she has plenty of junk food from the early parties she has been to. Between candy, cupcakes, and brownies she has more sweets then most kids out TOTing probably. Not to mention we will be making more tonight.

[bluedaisyma]

have her check the school office, teacher and bus and then she can make a new costume. no need to punish, but no buying a new costume unless she wants to pay for one. no biggie

[ohgirlohboyohno]

OP I totally get what you are saying...I have one of those kids...mine DOES have a diagnosed issue (learning disability) BUT there are things that she does that are NOT part of those issues. I swear we have donated a whole house full of clothing/coats/shoes/school supplies/lunch boxes/gloves/hats/toys....etc to the "lost" pile.

For the last 2 years she has not been allowed to go to the school Halloween dance...even though she DESPERATELY wanted to go....but she is onlt allowed to go if she has all her school work done....and both those weeks before the dance she has slacked and not done her homework...she can be a straight A student if she just gets her stuff turned in (usually it is done but not turned in or no name on it). The dance last year she just about wanted to run away from home becaus eI wouldn't let her go....then at like 10pm she texted me (from her room to me in my room) that she understood and was soory for being a brat about it....I saved that text - it was like a turning point...so there is HOPE! (she was 12 BTW)

Sometimes the "natural consequences" need to be supplemented with some "hard truth" too. I think she will be fine if she doesn't get to go ToT...like you said she was able to participate in several other holiday festivities and has enough "treats" from those and should be thankful for those.
it is TOUGH! I know it is!

[debmom2boyz]

All she can really do is look for it at school; the lost and found--maybe the teacher can send an email out--but then again if teachers sent an email every time a child lost/misplaced something it would be time consuming.

As far as her forgetting things...she has had a few changes in her life, right? When we moved from FL to NC my son was in 4th grade. HARDEST YEAR EVER!! (ok, 6th grade was hard, but on a different level). We had a lot of changes that year and he definately had some behavoiral changes.


She is also going through the being stages of puberty and figuring out where she fits in this world. She is in a new school, new state, new family dynamic. She may be missing her dad (right, her dad is in KY?).

Sit down and have a calm conversation with her. Ask her why she thinks you are upset. Ask her how you two can work together to have her more organized. Maybe she needs a new glass case or a strap for them? I've been through lost items in grade 4, 5, 6, 7. So far 8th is going fine!

ToT--don't push it. If she doesn't want to go--stay in and do something fun. She is more than likely stressed about it--even though she may not seem to care. I have 14 girls in my class...4th graders...it is like I have one myself!

[my2sweets]

Originally Posted by MothyrGrimm If she's not upset over losing it I wouldn't let her go. She should know its a big deal to lose things (costumes usually are pretty spendy). If she's upset I'd let her go if she made her own costume at home.

Agree.

[luvsviola]

My question is...

Halloween is something memories are made from. Is she really going to grow from the experience of not going? Sometimes, as parents, we are so eager to "win" that we forget the bigger picture. I am guilty of it, I know. I know I haven't read the entire thread. But it seems like punishing her is much more important to you than allowing the natural consequences to take over.

There is a great book by a guy named Kazdin called "Parenting the Defiant Child." Our developmental pediatrician recommended it to us for DS, and I am reading it right now. One of the big things he talks about is to praise the positive and ignore the negative because the more attention (even negative attention) you draw to negative behaviors, research shows us that kids will continue repeating them. His method is research based, and it is not touchy feely, but it works with kids of all ages. It is a great book, and not very expensive. One of the big things he talks about is that punishing children makes you feel better, but it does very little long term to change the behavior of the child. As the time outs get longer, and longer, and consequences become more and more severe, we have lost the war. What works is to praise and make a big deal out of the behaviors you want. For example, you reward the child for coming in the door and putting her shoes away, instead of yelling at the child for leaving shoes in the hallway. He has you practice it with the kid several times the first few days so that kiddo has chances to be praised, and to earn rewards for doing it right. I know that no method works for everyone, but it is helping us.

[mommy2kaitlyn]

Originally Posted by ohgirlohboyohno OP I totally get what you are saying...I have one of those kids...mine DOES have a diagnosed issue (learning disability) BUT there are things that she does that are NOT part of those issues. I swear we have donated a whole house full of clothing/coats/shoes/school supplies/lunch boxes/gloves/hats/toys....etc to the "lost" pile. For the last 2 years she has not been allowed to go to the school Halloween dance...even though she DESPERATELY wanted to go....but she is onlt allowed to go if she has all her school work done....and both those weeks before the dance she has slacked and not done her homework...she can be a straight A student if she just gets her stuff turned in (usually it is done but not turned in or no name on it). The dance last year she just about wanted to run away from home becaus eI wouldn't let her go....then at like 10pm she texted me (from her room to me in my room) that she understood and was soory for being a brat about it....I saved that text - it was like a turning point...so there is HOPE! (she was 12 BTW) Sometimes the "natural consequences" need to be supplemented with some "hard truth" too. I think she will be fine if she doesn't get to go ToT...like you said she was able to participate in several other holiday festivities and has enough "treats" from those and should be thankful for those. it is TOUGH! I know it is!

Thank you. It definitely is hard. First Halloween around family.

Originally Posted by debmom2boyz All she can really do is look for it at school; the lost and found--maybe the teacher can send an email out--but then again if teachers sent an email every time a child lost/misplaced something it would be time consuming. As far as her forgetting things...she has had a few changes in her life, right? When we moved from FL to NC my son was in 4th grade. HARDEST YEAR EVER!! (ok, 6th grade was hard, but on a different level). We had a lot of changes that year and he definately had some behavoiral changes. She is also going through the being stages of puberty and figuring out where she fits in this world. She is in a new school, new state, new family dynamic. She may be missing her dad (right, her dad is in KY?). Sit down and have a calm conversation with her. Ask her why she thinks you are upset. Ask her how you two can work together to have her more organized. Maybe she needs a new glass case or a strap for them? I've been through lost items in grade 4, 5, 6, 7. So far 8th is going fine! ToT--don't push it. If she doesn't want to go--stay in and do something fun. She is more than likely stressed about it--even though she may not seem to care. I have 14 girls in my class...4th graders...it is like I have one myself!

Actually this is nothing new. Definitely nothing to do with the move. She has lost so much over the years. Probably $100 cash if not more. Plus tons of items. I think it is normal to a certain age. Natural consequences have done nothing obviously.
She had them in a case. They just fell off the table 99% sure into the garbage and she didn't notice.

Originally Posted by luvsviola My question is... Halloween is something memories are made from. Is she really going to grow from the experience of not going? Sometimes, as parents, we are so eager to "win" that we forget the bigger picture. I am guilty of it, I know. I know I haven't read the entire thread. But it seems like punishing her is much more important to you than allowing the natural consequences to take over. There is a great book by a guy named Kazdin called "Parenting the Defiant Child." Our developmental pediatrician recommended it to us for DS, and I am reading it right now. One of the big things he talks about is to praise the positive and ignore the negative because the more attention (even negative attention) you draw to negative behaviors, research shows us that kids will continue repeating them. His method is research based, and it is not touchy feely, but it works with kids of all ages. It is a great book, and not very expensive. One of the big things he talks about is that punishing children makes you feel better, but it does very little long term to change the behavior of the child. As the time outs get longer, and longer, and consequences become more and more severe, we have lost the war. What works is to praise and make a big deal out of the behaviors you want. For example, you reward the child for coming in the door and putting her shoes away, instead of yelling at the child for leaving shoes in the hallway. He has you practice it with the kid several times the first few days so that kiddo has chances to be praised, and to earn rewards for doing it right. I know that no method works for everyone, but it is helping us.

I have done exactly as you suggested. For some kids it may work. But for mine it doesn't. I honestly think that try is a small pay of the issue. She thinks no big deal, I don't get into trouble.

As for memories I think it is more for the adults. The only Halloween I remember is when I was an idiot at 12or 13 years old. Dressed as a cheerleader and went out in the sleet and snow in short skirt, sweatshirt, keds, no coat. Lol All I remember is freezing my butt off. My legs were so bright red.
I can tell some years I was different things due to pictures. Just no real memories.

Alisha I know how to spell my Samsung Galaxy S2 does not.

[scwendy]

Originally Posted by mommy2kaitlyn She does lose things a lot including a pair of glasses. They were probably dropped in the garbage and she didn't notice. Table is right by out that she put the glasses on. My punishment yes I think it needs is no ToTing. She had two options to get it back find the costume otter pay me for the costume then go costume less. Her previous costume is to small and in KY. She is not passed by the loss. Just said I took it out. Which is just nuts. Alisha I know how to spell my Samsung Galaxy S2 does not.

I find her unwillingness to admit any fault to be more concerning than actually losing the costume.

For that reason alone, I think your consequences are spot on.

[Rhianna'sMommy]

OP - it all boils down to the fact that you know your kid best - not any book or a bunch of strangers on the internet. I know my kids and it would never occur to me to punish for losing something but they never lose anything and if the did they'd be horribly upset about it. So any advice I give is from that view point.

If she needs to lose a fun activity (even a once a year one) to get a point across then that is what you have to do. And at this point in time you told her what the punishment would be so more than anything you need to follow through. I hope you get the results you're looking for.

[mommy2kaitlyn]

Originally Posted by scwendy I find her unwillingness to admit any fault to be more concerning than actually losing the costume. For that reason alone, I think your consequences are spot on.

It really concerns me to. Scares me to be honest.

Originally Posted by Rhianna'sMommy OP - it all boils down to the fact that you know your kid best - not any book or a bunch of strangers on the internet. I know my kids and it would never occur to me to punish for losing something but they never lose anything and if the did they'd be horribly upset about it. So any advice I give is from that view point. If she needs to lose a fun activity (even a once a year one) to get a point across then that is what you have to do. And at this point in time you told her what the punishment would be so more than anything you need to follow through. I hope you get the results you're looking for.

Thanks. Oh I will follow through. I asked as I was just curious. Most that know my DD agree. The ones that don't are disagreeing for selfish reasons. They want her to go not what is best for her.

Alisha I know how to spell my Samsung Galaxy S2 does not.