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Old 11-20-2012, 09:30 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by L J

As one of the oldest members of this forum, I would like to say that I am not judging any mama who chooses any type of cloth for her child. I'm happy that more moms are choosing cloth these days.

I think the debate about Chinese business practices is one that could be had without hurting the feelings of the mamas that for, whatever reason, have chosen to use these diapers.

I understand informing and advocating, but I think it can be done without being quite so harsh and condemning of other mothers.
Did I miss the harsh and condemning part? It's hard to read tone over the Internet, maybe someone could point out the posts that seem harsh and condemning?

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Old 11-20-2012, 09:32 AM   #132
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Re: Alva stealing prints?

Yes, they buy Alva's and retag them. I have seen this all over. NOT only that but they then US companies charge a whole lot more... I think I have a bigger issue with that, than ordering with a co-op here on DS. I feel it's scammy to slap another label on so people don't know they are buying a cheap diaper and pay 3x's as much simply for a label.

Alva is a Chinese company. China does not live by US patents, nor do they have to, they are their own country. I do have a problem with Alva reprinting other companies prints. I think they have plenty of ingenuity to create cute prints and have cute original prints. However, is anyone here a patent lawyer? Here we are bashing a company without even asking if it was perfectly legal for them to do. Yes, we can all stand around the cooler chatting about the ethics/morals, of a company, but if it is legal for them to copy - as it is there, the only thing one can do is get the word out to not buy those specific prints, or allow those specific prints to be blocked from crossing USA boarders. It is a chronic problem with different laws about patents in different countries, and we should recognize that. If those prints were not allowed across USA boarders, would that resolve the issue of patent infringement? Probably. There just isn't much enforcement with patent law in the USA unfortunately.

We should also recognize that these Alva diapers are awesome. This is the first time I've found a diaper that actually fits like I want it to. Whoever said they copied another diaper company's form pattern, could you send me or post who they are? I would like to know who/where the originals pattern makers are. Not only that, they have withstood some constant use and abuse and look just great. I wasn't expecting that from a cheap diaper.

Those of you who say they are undermining the market, you are right they are. They have cuter prints, better fit, and cheaper prices. Not only that they come out with new prints more often. I have yet to have a problem with quality control or longevity. We must ask ourselves, are you waging a losing battle? I have tried the $20- $30 diapers and they have disappointed me on fit and function.

I should clarify, I don't have a problem with Alva, copying prints, when it is legal over there to do so. I have a problem with them marketing said prints to the USA, where it is not legal. They could slap a tag on some of those prints on the site and say, "Not for resale in the USA" Or our co-ops should not list those prints as available to buy.
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Last edited by rumblepurr; 11-20-2012 at 10:47 AM.
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:37 AM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeccaSueCongdon

Did I miss the harsh and condemning part? It's hard to read tone over the Internet, maybe someone could point out the posts that seem harsh and condemning?
Only Peanut's post, where she lectures on what DS moms stand for.

I agree with most of it, I really do. But it came off a little harsh to me. And unwelcoming. But you are right, tone is impossible to detect online, so I may have misjudged her intent. To me, it felt like she was saying that if you aren't all those things she outline in her post, you aren't welcome here. And I don't want DS to come to that. (Slightly off topic, but) traffic here is way down from what we have seen in years past. The advent of FB groups is hurting forums everywhere. And I would have to see DS turn into a small group of moms who exclusively use wahm diapers. I love newbies, and helping people troubleshoot and recommending new dipes. I love how friendly and helpful and welcoming DS is to everyone. I just don't want to see members leaving because they feel like if they don't use US based diapers or wahm diapers (right now!/yet!) then they aren't welcome.
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:40 AM   #134
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Re: Alva stealing prints?

Sorry! I don't mean to be unwelcoming. I just feel like calling us "diaper snobs" is unfair. I don't judge anyone for buying china diapers. I really dont. Anyone who buys any diaper is more than welcome here. I just don't like being called a diaper snob, when that is not what we are at all. Caring about ethics is does not equal snobbery.
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:53 AM   #135
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I agree, flats and prefolds are a great alternative. I love them. However, those don't fit into everyone's lifestyle. Let's be honest, there is a bit of a learning curve (folding, etc). I have used Alva and Sunbaby diapers in the past, which I've since sold. Now, I use flats, prefolds, and covers exclusively. I realize, however, that my system isn't for everyone, especially for those who want a diaper that is as easy to use as a disposable. I'm lucky to be able to stay at home with my daughter, but many mamas have babies in daycare and most providers want easy diapers (pockets, all-in-ones).

So, for those mamas who truly need to cloth diaper for financial reasons, and for those that simply don't want to use flats or prefolds, what are other options that match the price and convenience of the China diapers? I really am curious. No snark or sarcasm here.

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Old 11-20-2012, 09:56 AM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L J

Only Peanut's post, where she lectures on what DS moms stand for.

I agree with most of it, I really do. But it came off a little harsh to me. And unwelcoming. But you are right, tone is impossible to detect online, so I may have misjudged her intent. To me, it felt like she was saying that if you aren't all those things she outline in her post, you aren't welcome here. And I don't want DS to come to that. (Slightly off topic, but) traffic here is way down from what we have seen in years past. The advent of FB groups is hurting forums everywhere. And I would have to see DS turn into a small group of moms who exclusively use wahm diapers. I love newbies, and helping people troubleshoot and recommending new dipes. I love how friendly and helpful and welcoming DS is to everyone. I just don't want to see members leaving because they feel like if they don't use US based diapers or wahm diapers (right now!/yet!) then they aren't welcome.
That makes sense. In a public forum there can be a wide variety of opinions and we should be careful to identify our opinion as that of the entire community unless it is actually something that's explicitly part of the group identity as defined when someone signs up something.

I mostly agree with Peanut, though. :-)
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:01 AM   #137
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Re: Alva stealing prints?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyWifeBethany View Post
I agree, flats and prefolds are a great alternative. I love them. However, those don't fit into everyone's lifestyle. Let's be honest, there is a bit of a learning curve (folding, etc). I have used Alva and Sunbaby diapers in the past, which I've since sold. Now, I use flats, prefolds, and covers exclusively. I realize, however, that my system isn't for everyone, especially for those who want a diaper that is as easy to use as a disposable. I'm lucky to be able to stay at home with my daughter, but many mamas have babies in daycare and most providers want easy diapers (pockets, all-in-ones).

So, for those mamas who truly need to cloth diaper for financial reasons, and for those that simply don't want to use flats or prefolds, what are other options that match the price and convenience of the China diapers? I really am curious. No snark or sarcasm here.

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The only way I was able to get a decent stash for daycare was FSOT and that wan't easy. I had to search and search for diapers that were in my price range that were still is good enough shape to last awhile and most of those were Alvas or Sunbabies. A few times I have come across some BG's and FB. When I first started looking there were tons of posts on how awsome Alvas were and they everyone was raving about them and the cute prints and how they had to have the newest print. So I do find it kind of ironic that now there has been a total turn around and Alva's are this horrible diaper.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:06 AM   #138
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Re: Alva stealing prints?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerissa View Post
The only way I was able to get a decent stash for daycare was FSOT and that wan't easy. I had to search and search for diapers that were in my price range that were still is good enough shape to last awhile and most of those were Alvas or Sunbabies. A few times I have come across some BG's and FB. When I first started looking there were tons of posts on how awsome Alvas were and they everyone was raving about them and the cute prints and how they had to have the newest print. So I do find it kind of ironic that now there has been a total turn around and Alva's are this horrible diaper.
I don't think anyone is saying that Alva's are bad diapers, I hear a lot about how they work great... some people just don't like some of their business practices.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:15 AM   #139
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Re: Alva stealing prints?

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Originally Posted by dncnshu00 View Post
I bought my Alvas and mt Diaper Safari pockets before I was aware any of this was going on. I don't see how they can say they're not Alvas when the diapers are IDENTICAL! I'm willing to post pics if necessary.
They may be rebranded I'm not sure. I do consider rebranded vastly different from copied though. I also personally have peace of mind and confidence buying even rebranded diapers from companies that have proven them selfs. Companies like diaper safari Nicky diapers ect have been around for as long as I've been cloth diapering or just about I trust in them.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:16 AM   #140
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Re: Alva stealing prints?

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Originally Posted by laineypaige View Post
I'm honestly getting more and more turned off by this board. Here I thought it was a group of very accepting, non judgmental women, but this post is showing people's true colors. I commented several posts after the one where I said that I would probably buy from Alva again, just not stolen prints, that this was really making me think, and instead of being encouraging and stating your sincere opinions in a kind way, you say nothing but "No comments!" as if you can't believe I would do such a thing. It was rude and unnecessary unless that was your intention, to make me feel bad, which I guess maybe it was.
I am sorry my "no comments" sounds rude to you. I should have probably add more to it.

To say " I'll buy from this company but not the stolen prints" sounds a bit inconsistent to me. I think it is great that you decided to vote with your wallet and chose not to buy the stolen prints. But do you feel that this company stole by mistake and it won't happen again? Or - if you continue supporting this company - the chance that you will end up with stolen something again is pretty good?
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