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Old 11-20-2012, 12:27 PM   #191
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Re: Alva stealing prints?

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Originally Posted by MyVeryBest View Post
I am sorry my "no comments" sounds rude to you. I should have probably add more to it.

To say " I'll buy from this company but not the stolen prints" sounds a bit inconsistent to me. I think it is great that you decided to vote with your wallet and chose not to buy the stolen prints. But do you feel that this company stole by mistake and it won't happen again? Or - if you continue supporting this company - the chance that you will end up with stolen something again is pretty good?
No I don't believe it was by mistake. and yes I think that as long as they can get away with it they will continue to do it, which is why I said this post was really making me think. I didn't expound on that, but it's making me think about whether or not I want to support (in any way) a company like that. And it's making me think about other ways I could use cloth and still keep the cost low.

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Old 11-20-2012, 12:27 PM   #192
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Yes but i think the main point here is worth ethics. Are they fair in the factories over there? Under paid, worked over, underage ect.
In general Egyptian and Turkish manufacturing facilities have good reputations. It's a contract relationship; bG does not employ the people operating the sewing machines. Their oversight is provided within the facility. However, any US or Euro or Canadian company who establishes a manufacturing relationship with a facility is vetting it, and smaller companies like Cotton Babies do not get away with the kind of things that Gap and Nike, et al, get away with--because they own their own plants, unlike Cotton Babies, GroVia, FuzziBunz, Rumparooz, et al. Nor do I think they would want to or try to--these are not Fortune 500 companies we're talking about. You can't compare them to apparel and electronics brands that we know have a 700% bottom line margin.

Last edited by March; 11-20-2012 at 12:44 PM.
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:29 PM   #193
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Re: Alva stealing prints?

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Originally Posted by ejr3705 View Post
Product Info

From the Grovia website:

Inner: Sewn in Soaker Pad 55% Hemp, 45% Cotton topped with 100% Polyester Microfleece
Body Lining: 100% Polyester Microfleece
Outer: 100% Water Resistant Polyester TPU
No Cover Needed
Made fairly & conscientiously in China

BumGenius are made in Egypt and USA while the MF inserts are made in China! (Bottom of the page) http://www.bumgenius.com/one-size.php

I have no qualms purchasing Alva diapers, as they don't have a 150% mark up in price of making them. If the "name brand" diapers offered affordable diapers then it would be a different story. I have BG diapers and other brands, but they were all purchased on sale or as seconds. But I have supplemented my 50+diaper stash with Alvas. Where do you think they got ahold of these supposed "stolen" prints! If these companies opt to produce their products in China where there are not held to US copyright laws then that was their mistake.

To each their own, purchase or don't purchase that's your choice. But don't flame someone for doing so! We all have been to the Dollar store and bought something that was clearly a "knock off" of a name brand item at Bed Bath and Beyond. Look at Hostess and Little Debbie! You have name brand Twinkies and Little Debbie's cloud cakes!
I know grovia was on earlier so maybe they can answer this but are the diapers made fair to Chinese standards or American standards? Do the workers receive the American min.wage ? If so why can't they just move everything back over here? There is no snarkiness I genuinely don't understand why if you are going to be so concerned about treating people fairly (which of course I think you should) why can't you just do it over here.
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:33 PM   #194
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Re: Alva stealing prints?

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I know grovia was on earlier so maybe they can answer this but are the diapers made fair to Chinese standards or American standards? Do the workers receive the American min.wage ? If so why can't they just move everything back over here? There is no snarkiness I genuinely don't understand why if you are going to be so concerned about treating people fairly (which of course I think you should) why can't you just do it over here.
They have started to make their fitteds here with US milled fabric. It really is pricy to make items in the US.
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:35 PM   #195
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Re: Alva stealing prints?

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Originally Posted by MyVeryBest View Post
I think of moderators more as leaders than technical assistants. That's why I thought they are not supposed to express publically what goes against common moral standards.
You didn't actually say that do not see anything wrong in stealing. Only that you will support any company that offers the right price. By some reason it sounded the same to me.
Mods are allowed to vocalize opinions even if controversial or against popular opinion, we can debate just like any other DS member.

I agree with many posters here that alva makes diapers affordable for those who could not otherwise afford them.

You are making some pretty bold leaps about what I supposedly believe regarding things I never even adressed.
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:36 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by ejr3705
Product Info

From the Grovia website:

Inner: Sewn in Soaker Pad 55% Hemp, 45% Cotton topped with 100% Polyester Microfleece
Body Lining: 100% Polyester Microfleece
Outer: 100% Water Resistant Polyester TPU
No Cover Needed
Made fairly & conscientiously in China

BumGenius are made in Egypt and USA while the MF inserts are made in China! (Bottom of the page) http://www.bumgenius.com/one-size.php

I have no qualms purchasing Alva diapers, as they don't have a 150% mark up in price of making them. If the "name brand" diapers offered affordable diapers then it would be a different story. I have BG diapers and other brands, but they were all purchased on sale or as seconds. But I have supplemented my 50+diaper stash with Alvas. Where do you think they got ahold of these supposed "stolen" prints! If these companies opt to produce their products in China where there are not held to US copyright laws then that was their mistake.

To each their own, purchase or don't purchase that's your choice. But don't flame someone for doing so! We all have been to the Dollar store and bought something that was clearly a "knock off" of a name brand item at Bed Bath and Beyond. Look at Hostess and Little Debbie! You have name brand Twinkies and Little Debbie's cloud cakes!
If you think mainstream industry diapers have what even APPROACHES a 150% markup... Or a 100% markup... You've got another think coming, my friend.
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:38 PM   #197
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Re: Alva stealing prints?

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Originally Posted by March View Post
The utilitarian/consequentialist bent to these arguments scares me. The ends (that it has more families using cloth now) do not justify the means--a company (or several, as the case may be) has conspiratorially designed to ruin the market with counterfeit products that aren't tested for safety, violate numerous US, Canadian, and European patents, and even go so far as to reproduce registered artwork. Bringing anything this company makes into the US *is* unethical. It's even illegal if the patent violations are not rectified before they are distributed to US consumers.

This is why conscious consumership is so important! It sucks to find out later that you've been participating in something icky, I know. I know some local non-profits in my area have offered conscious consumership classes through the library system. I took a class in college called "eco-texts," and we covered this issue. It is a huge issue on the world stage! Alva diapers are not an isolated incident. This is happening in every market and it will completely eradicate industries that people have worked hard to build. It already has, and, frankly, boutique baby care items like modern cloth diapers sort of appear to be on the chopping block. Getting educated now can help you do your part.
I think this is an excellent post.

I also don't quite buy that one cannot be ethically conscious and still cloth diaper for a relatively small amount of money, even with diapers necessary for daycare. It's a needs versus wants thing. If daycare requires something, then one needs to only purchase enough for the two days of daycare, and can use prefolds/flats at home. If one doesn't WANT to use prefolds/flats at home, then that's a lifestyle choice. Everyone has different priorities, and I really don't see this any differently then those who purchase fewer foods but organic, or those who purchase less clothing but from a reputable company. Everyone makes choices.

Now, for those who have no idea, I absolutely would urge reconsideration of feeling accused of something. I happened upon a website when I was pregnant with my son that made it very much seem like she was a WAHM who had contracted with a company to make her design, and that everything was kosher. I had no experience, had not yet discovered this board nor HC, and found it by Googling. I purchased 8. They are just rebranded Alva's. I had no idea. I think they were like $10 each, and I thought I was supporting a Mama fighting the good fight. It happens.

I am the daughter of a writer and adherence to intellectual property is something that I put a premium on supporting. It's just how I was raised. I also put a premium on clean eating. But, there are other things that women here are very passionate about and is just not something my family concerns ourselves with. However, I do not think it's being disrespectful to anyone else's opinion or station to point out why something may be a poor choice. It's just education.
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:42 PM   #198
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Re: Alva stealing prints?

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Originally Posted by bdhutier View Post
I know grovia was on earlier so maybe they can answer this but are the diapers made fair to Chinese standards or American standards? Do the workers receive the American min.wage ? If so why can't they just move everything back over here? There is no snarkiness I genuinely don't understand why if you are going to be so concerned about treating people fairly (which of course I think you should) why can't you just do it over here.
I think this is a great question and we're very proud of our manufacturing, both in China and here in the U.S., so I'm happy to share some details with you.

We've worked with the same production family for four years. They undergo, at least yearly, inspections by IMO and 3rd party inspectors to ensure fair labor/fair wages for their region. This is all part of us maintaining our IMO Certification. Additionally, I am personally on the factory floor 1-2 times per year during production cycles. I wouldn't have it any other way.

We choose Chinese production for SOME of our products for a variety of reasons. Mainly, that there are virtually no mills left in the U.S. to make synthetic fabrics, snaps, elastics, and thread. So for those products, we choose to import a finished product made to very high standards vs. importing rolled goods.

As America catches up and starts to re-establish it's production foundation we are always looking for ways to grow our production stateside. Which is exactly what we did this year with launching the GroVia Kiwi Pie line. These products are all made from fabric milled here in the U.S. as well as cut and sewn here. Magic Stick, Tiny Bubbles, Mighty Bubbles, and our entire Wool Care line is all made here in the U.S. as well!
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:45 PM   #199
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Re: Alva stealing prints?

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Originally Posted by Serenajean1 View Post
Mods are allowed to vocalize opinions even if controversial or against popular opinion, we can debate just like any other DS member.

I agree with many posters here that alva makes diapers affordable for those who could not otherwise afford them.

You are making some pretty bold leaps about what I supposedly believe regarding things I never even adressed.
Popular opinion and a moral norm are not the same thing. I do not know what you believe. I just read what you post. When I asked if stolen prints is a problem for you, your answer was:

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Originally Posted by Serenajean1 View Post
For me yes functionality and afordability are what matters when I decide what to buy. Each person makes the decisions best for them and their families.

I do not appriciate the snide and condescending tone. You need not agree with me but you can express your disagreement respectfully.
I am sorry I misread it as your supporting Alva's stealing.
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:47 PM   #200
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Re: Alva stealing prints?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ejr3705 View Post
Product Info

From the Grovia website:

Inner: Sewn in Soaker Pad 55% Hemp, 45% Cotton topped with 100% Polyester Microfleece
Body Lining: 100% Polyester Microfleece
Outer: 100% Water Resistant Polyester TPU
No Cover Needed
Made fairly & conscientiously in China

BumGenius are made in Egypt and USA while the MF inserts are made in China! (Bottom of the page) http://www.bumgenius.com/one-size.php

I have no qualms purchasing Alva diapers, as they don't have a 150% mark up in price of making them. If the "name brand" diapers offered affordable diapers then it would be a different story. I have BG diapers and other brands, but they were all purchased on sale or as seconds. But I have supplemented my 50+diaper stash with Alvas. Where do you think they got ahold of these supposed "stolen" prints! If these companies opt to produce their products in China where there are not held to US copyright laws then that was their mistake.

To each their own, purchase or don't purchase that's your choice. But don't flame someone for doing so! We all have been to the Dollar store and bought something that was clearly a "knock off" of a name brand item at Bed Bath and Beyond. Look at Hostess and Little Debbie! You have name brand Twinkies and Little Debbie's cloud cakes!
I have to agree with the bolded.
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