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Old 11-20-2012, 01:12 PM   #211
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Re: Alva stealing prints?

What if this was not diapers? Would people have a different prospective?

Let's say Company X has a small piece of the Heather Ross Fabric "Lightening Bugs and other Mysteries". Let's say it is the Very popular Fish in Bags. Now lets say Company X based in China. They go to a Factory that prints fabric. They tell them this fabric is selling for $20 a FQ (or 1/4 of a yard for those that don't sew) and They want them to scan it into a computer and re-print it. So They have 500 yards of the fabric printed up. They have another factory make cute little baby/toddler clothes and sell them for $20 each! Then they also have the factory make other clothes from Alexander Henry Fabric they bought directly from the real factory that makes them.

Would you think it was ethical to buy anything from Company X? They didn't just accidentally happen upon the fake Fish in Bags Fabric. They researched. They found out what was popular and selling. They intentionally copied and then marketed the products to the United States. They didn't ship them in bulk to a store. They sold on-line... One by one .... So that US customs would be less likely to open the packages and inspect. They renamed the print Fish in Baggies so some people didn't even know that it was a copy of the Heather Ross Fabric, and some people recognized the print but figured they had permission.

Then it was found out that they illegally copied the fabric. If a person would choose not to buy anything from this company ... knowing that they were committing fraud and crimes.... Would they be a clothing snob? Would anyone feel comfortable buying just the clothing made with the other fabric from Company X?

I don't think anyone would think anyone who bought the toddler clothing without knowledge of the copyright infringement was a bad person. They were partially a "victim" as the purchased something that was a "knock-off" or counterfeit. However in my humble opinion... if someone wants to continue purchasing from that company knowing what they are doing, then they are making the CHOICE to support those illegal business practices.

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Old 11-20-2012, 01:16 PM   #212
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Re: Alva stealing prints?

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Originally Posted by *Peanut* View Post
I don't think it's fair to blame grovia or BG for other companies stealing their designs. Why is it their fault? I would be willing to bet cash money that grovia and BG have a contractual agreement with their manufacturers that specifically states that these companies may not share their information and designs.

IMO, that's like saying its your fault if you got poisoned by tainted Chinese toothpaste because you should have bought another US brand.
i agree. they could just as easily have gotten hold of a diaper with the print they wanted to steal.
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:40 PM   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rdesonia
What if this was not diapers? Would people have a different prospective?

Let's say Company X has a small piece of the Heather Ross Fabric "Lightening Bugs and other Mysteries". Let's say it is the Very popular Fish in Bags. Now lets say Company X based in China. They go to a Factory that prints fabric. They tell them this fabric is selling for $20 a FQ (or 1/4 of a yard for those that don't sew) and They want them to scan it into a computer and re-print it. So They have 500 yards of the fabric printed up. They have another factory make cute little baby/toddler clothes and sell them for $20 each! Then they also have the factory make other clothes from Alexander Henry Fabric they bought directly from the real factory that makes them.

Would you think it was ethical to buy anything from Company X? They didn't just accidentally happen upon the fake Fish in Bags Fabric. They researched. They found out what was popular and selling. They intentionally copied and then marketed the products to the United States. They didn't ship them in bulk to a store. They sold on-line... One by one .... So that US customs would be less likely to open the packages and inspect. They renamed the print Fish in Baggies so some people didn't even know that it was a copy of the Heather Ross Fabric, and some people recognized the print but figured they had permission.

Then it was found out that they illegally copied the fabric. If a person would choose not to buy anything from this company ... knowing that they were committing fraud and crimes.... Would they be a clothing snob? Would anyone feel comfortable buying just the clothing made with the other fabric from Company X?

I don't think anyone would think anyone who bought the toddler clothing without knowledge of the copyright infringement was a bad person. They were partially a "victim" as the purchased something that was a "knock-off" or counterfeit. However in my humble opinion... if someone wants to continue purchasing from that company knowing what they are doing, then they are making the CHOICE to support those illegal business practices.
Yes! The only point I'd refine is that there are *usually* clues that someone is purchasing a knockoff. A shopping co-op, a street vendor, an unlicensed retailer. But not always--Urban Outfitters has stolen numerous artisan designs. So sick!
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:40 PM   #214
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Re: Alva stealing prints?

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I agree, flats and prefolds are a great alternative. I love them. However, those don't fit into everyone's lifestyle. Let's be honest, there is a bit of a learning curve (folding, etc). I have used Alva and Sunbaby diapers in the past, which I've since sold. Now, I use flats, prefolds, and covers exclusively. I realize, however, that my system isn't for everyone, especially for those who want a diaper that is as easy to use as a disposable. I'm lucky to be able to stay at home with my daughter, but many mamas have babies in daycare and most providers want easy diapers (pockets, all-in-ones).

So, for those mamas who truly need to cloth diaper for financial reasons, and for those that simply don't want to use flats or prefolds, what are other options that match the price and convenience of the China diapers? I really am curious. No snark or sarcasm here.

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Sunbaby and FSOT. Sunbaby at least doesn't steal their ideas and prints, AFAIK. I still can't support Sunbaby (for my own reasons) but I would say they are better than Alvas as far as legalities and morals go.

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Originally Posted by november View Post
This is a pretty civil conversation, imo. Maybe I've just been part of message boards for waaaay too long and have seen too many explosive threads but this is pretty peaceful compared to what you will find elsewhere. People have passionate opinions about this topic. If you don't agree with them, it doesn't make it rude or disrespectful, its just a difference of opinion. We are not a bunch of snobs, we are a diverse group of women with differing opinions and ideas about what we feel is or is not ethical when it comes to business practices. That's not a slam to people that purchase the products. I don't think its fair to say its bullying and rude to talk about it when all we are doing is having open dialogue about a important issue in the industry.

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Originally Posted by momof3boys1girl View Post
But even my prints say made in usa hmmm
Most of my BGs are made in the USA but I have two made in Egypt, I think.

I don't think this thread is about Alvas being made in China. It's about Alvas stealing.
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:58 PM   #215
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Re: Alva stealing prints?

If I recall correct the reason sunbaby has limited prints is that they buy the clearout pul the leftovrs so when its gone its gone, then they do the next print in as many cuts as possible from the end of rolls they buy.
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:00 PM   #216
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Re: Alva stealing prints?

I hope this doesn't get nasty.
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:01 PM   #217
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Re: Alva stealing prints?

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I hope this doesn't get nasty.
Too late. It's actually getting nice again.
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:09 PM   #218
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Re: Alva stealing prints?

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I think this is a great question and we're very proud of our manufacturing, both in China and here in the U.S., so I'm happy to share some details with you.

We've worked with the same production family for four years. They undergo, at least yearly, inspections by IMO and 3rd party inspectors to ensure fair labor/fair wages for their region. This is all part of us maintaining our IMO Certification. Additionally, I am personally on the factory floor 1-2 times per year during production cycles. I wouldn't have it any other way.

We choose Chinese production for SOME of our products for a variety of reasons. Mainly, that there are virtually no mills left in the U.S. to make synthetic fabrics, snaps, elastics, and thread. So for those products, we choose to import a finished product made to very high standards vs. importing rolled goods.

As America catches up and starts to re-establish it's production foundation we are always looking for ways to grow our production stateside. Which is exactly what we did this year with launching the GroVia Kiwi Pie line. These products are all made from fabric milled here in the U.S. as well as cut and sewn here. Magic Stick, Tiny Bubbles, Mighty Bubbles, and our entire Wool Care line is all made here in the U.S. as well!
Thank you for the information. I was not aware of the mill issue so at least for those items they can't be produced here. I am happy to see that you are trying to produce things stateside and that you are concerned about how your diapers are made not just the profit.
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:09 PM   #219
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Re: Alva stealing prints?

I think we all just need to keep our heads about us when we're typing.

We need to word things like---->
"I don't feel comfortable supporting Alva if they are going to be using stolen prints. My reasons for this are XYZ. I'm not going to buy from them"

Statements like, "Anyone who purchases from this company is.....XYZ. They obviously don't understand that...ABC" Can be easily read wrong and start to create defensive stances.

I like a good debate, I always learn things.

I own 1 alva diaper that I got off the FSOT, its not the perfect fit for my kid (too small in the legs). I never bought from their website directly because I was overwhelmed by the number of options... and for whatever reason I was just turned off. I do buy Sunbaby diapers though, for me the Sunbaby diapers have held up better than the BG 4.0s I got off the FSOT for twice the price, but maybe I job got a rotten lot, who knows. This whole thread has me wondering about the hello kitty prints Sunbaby puts out.... but HK has been around for a long time so I don't know what her copyrite laws are like in the U.S...... plus, I'm sure she's not a US character. I like the fit of the BG 4.0s better and if I ever sell off this mountain of diapers I have acquired I'll probably buy more.
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:15 PM   #220
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Re: Alva stealing prints?

I consumed an entire bucket of popcorn reading this thread. Thank you, ladies.
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