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Old 12-09-2012, 12:00 PM   #121
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Re: My first bad WIC experience

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Wic is government assistance. It is a supplemental food program, funded by the government, designed to help low income families meet basic nutritional needs. Why does calling it what it is upset people?

Yes, of course, you are entitled to your opinion, but you contradict yourself. You cite it as a means to get people to try healthier foods, but then you critique what they say is healthy. WIC says their goal is to provide foods high in nutrition, along with education, to those in need. Beans, eggs, peanut butter, cheese, milk and grains are cheap, filling foods that maximize nutritional dollars available for the program and are tolerated by the majority--this is why they are on the program. I think WIC did an excellent job of designing a program to meet some of the basic needs of the majority who qualify.

That said, what I (and maybe others) am saying is that if you can afford to turn down the wic options because you think they contain too much sugar (or whatever other reason), then perhaps the income limits are too high, as I believe government assistance should only be available to those with no other options. It isn't meant to be a buffet type program that takes into account every person's preferences.
I guess what I mean is it's not government assistance in the way that food stamps are. It's a nutritional supplement program designed to help and educate others. It's not a card with money on it for people to spend on food how they like (and I'm a huge supporter of food stamps, so I don't mean this negatively).

I'm not contradicting myself, though. Most of what WIC says is healthy IS healthy. And it DOES encourage people to cook beans instead of eat frozen nuggets. But I can be irritated that they fall short somewhere. It doesn't mean I'm contradictory, it just means WIC isn't perfect for me. (Which also goes with your comment of "It isn't meant to be a buffet type program that takes into account every person's preferences.")

I also didn't say that I turn down WIC because of their options. And you don't seem to be getting that sometimes, people turn down WIC because it's not worth it. The cost vs benefit isn't worth it. If free stuff costs you money, it's not free. And for some people, despite how hard up they are, cannot afford to be on WIC or food stamps or other assistance programs because it cuts into their work time or costs them gas they simply don't have or whatever else (different reasons for different programs). I don't think that means the income requirements are too high, but that it just doesn't always work for everyone, which is why there are (usually and thankfully) different options in different areas.

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Old 12-09-2012, 12:06 PM   #122
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Re: My first bad WIC experience

imo WIC and welfare are two entirely different things.
WIC = Women, Infants and children gives you voucher checks to get milk, eggs, cheese, cereal etc.... depends on income if qualifies. Even people with decent jobs qualify. WIC is under the department of agriculture. It is a nutrition program. Yes it is "welfare type" program because it is a hand out by the government but so it federal financial aid, medicare, tax breaks, stimulus checks it is just more accepted.
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:25 PM   #123
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Re: My first bad WIC experience

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imo WIC and welfare are two entirely different things.
WIC = Women, Infants and children gives you voucher checks to get milk, eggs, cheese, cereal etc.... depends on income if qualifies. Even people with decent jobs qualify. WIC is under the department of agriculture. It is a nutrition program. Yes it is "welfare type" program because it is a hand out by the government but so it federal financial aid, medicare, tax breaks, stimulus checks it is just more accepted.
This is the difference in my mind as well.
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:45 PM   #124
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imo WIC and welfare are two entirely different things.
WIC = Women, Infants and children gives you voucher checks to get milk, eggs, cheese, cereal etc.... depends on income if qualifies. Even people with decent jobs qualify. WIC is under the department of agriculture. It is a nutrition program. Yes it is "welfare type" program because it is a hand out by the government but so it federal financial aid, medicare, tax breaks, stimulus checks it is just more accepted.
It isn't as though we need to agree on semantics, but there is a great difference between an educational loan that one has to pay back or a tax break for charitable contributions/interest paid on real investments and government assistance for a basic need that one cannot provide for their family alone.

Government assistance comes in many forms for low income families--health insurance, food supplement programs (like wic), snap (food stamps), cash assistance, daycare assistance, utility assistance, housing, etc. People receiving all types of aid can have a "decent job," whatever that means.

These are all helpful forms of government assistance that are provided based solely on income and family size ( and for some programs, contingent upon qualifying ages), and downplaying the government's role in providing needed aid is a head scratcher for me. But, to each his own.
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:11 PM   #125
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Re: My first bad WIC experience

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It isn't as though we need to agree on semantics, but there is a great difference between an educational loan that one has to pay back or a tax break for charitable contributions/interest paid on real investments and government assistance for a basic need that one cannot provide for their family alone.

Government assistance comes in many forms for low income families--health insurance, food supplement programs (like wic), snap (food stamps), cash assistance, daycare assistance, utility assistance, housing, etc. People receiving all types of aid can have a "decent job," whatever that means.

These are all helpful forms of government assistance that are provided based solely on income and family size ( and for some programs, contingent upon qualifying ages), and downplaying the government's role in providing needed aid is a head scratcher for me. But, to each his own.
But wic is NOT for providing a basic need that qualifiers cant provide on their own. Like you already said, the qualifications are way too lenient to define it that way. And student loans that are subsidized by the government are not always completely paid back....doesnt the government cover interest while in school? Dont they act as cosigner when someone fails to repay? And not all tax breaks are from investments. There are plenty of tax breaks that are purely government aid, like EIC, etc. Both of those government assistance programs have levels of not qualifying anymore and both of them are given to people who probably dont need it by your definition....as an absolute last resort if youre about to be homeless and starving. I think these lenient govrrnment assistance programs are the perfect comparison.

Im not downplaying how much the government is involved....i dont think anyone is doing that. But were trying to explain that its not a "keep people from starving" assistance program. Its not only for people who cant provide food for their families. Just like that EIC tax break isnt only going to people who might not be able to pay basic bills without it. There are different levels of government assistance, and im not ashamed of accepting assistance if i qualify for it and can benefit from it, but ill be damned if im going to lie down and shut up while people perpetuate the stigma. And going on about who really deserves wic is perpetuating the stigma.

Its not enough that people arent cheating the system, they also have to fit into every.single.taxpayers unsolicited opinion of who deserves to use it legitemately. Every person in the united states uses government assistance, whether it be the police, fire department, roads, schools, etc. There should be no stigma associated with any level of assistance, and unless you are living in that persons shoes, you have NO odea whether they deserve it or not.

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Old 12-09-2012, 02:14 PM   #126
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Re: My first bad WIC experience

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Originally Posted by soonerfan View Post
It isn't as though we need to agree on semantics, but there is a great difference between an educational loan that one has to pay back or a tax break for charitable contributions/interest paid on real investments and government assistance for a basic need that one cannot provide for their family alone.

Government assistance comes in many forms for low income families--health insurance, food supplement programs (like wic), snap (food stamps), cash assistance, daycare assistance, utility assistance, housing, etc. People receiving all types of aid can have a "decent job," whatever that means.

These are all helpful forms of government assistance that are provided based solely on income and family size ( and for some programs, contingent upon qualifying ages), and downplaying the government's role in providing needed aid is a head scratcher for me. But, to each his own.
I have never understood this either. WIC is absolutely an income based welfare program. Whether it is run by the Dept of Agriculture or some other government department, it is welfare by it's very definition. Just because it has a higher allowable income than SNAP does not change the facts. There seems to be a misunderstanding in this thread that most people qualify. That isn't the case. For example, my family of 5 would have a limit of slighty under $50000. True, this isn't below federal poverty levels, but it is still low income.
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:20 PM   #127
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Re: My first bad WIC experience

Financial aid is income based, tax breaks are income based....are these defined as welfare? I also forgot to mention that financial aid includes grants that are income based and never have to be repaid.
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:28 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by harmoni247

But wic is NOT for providing a basic need that qualifiers cant provide on their own. Like you already said, the qualifications are way too lenient to define it that way. And student loans that are subsidized by the government are not always completely paid back....doesnt the government cover interest while in school? Dont they act as cosigner when someone fails to repay? And not all tax breaks are from investments. There are plenty of tax breaks that are purely government aid, like EIC, etc. Both of those government assistance programs have levels of not qualifying anymore and both of them are given to people who probably dont need it by your definition....as an absolute last resort if youre about to be homeless and starving. I think these lenient govrrnment assistance programs are the perfect comparison.

Im not downplaying how much the government is involved....i dont think anyone is doing that. But were trying to explain that its not a "keep people from starving" assistance program. Its not only for people who cant provide food for their families. Just like that EIC tax break isnt only going to people who might not be able to pay basic bills without it. There are different levels of government assistance, and im not ashamed of accepting assistance if i qualify for it and can benefit from it, but ill be damned if im going to lie down and shut up while people perpetuate the stigma. And going on about who really deserves wic is perpetuating the stigma.

Its not enough that people arent cheating the system, they also have to fit into every.single.taxpayers unsolicited opinion of who deserves to use it legitemately. Every person in the united states uses government assistance, whether it be the police, fire department, roads, schools, etc. There should be no stigma associated with any level of assistance, and unless you are living in that persons shoes, you have NO odea whether they deserve it or not.
I absolutely agree that the EIC is a form of welfare/government assistance. And I never implied or stated that WIC is more than a supplemental government food program--I think I've included the word "supplemental" in every post.

If WIC had nothing to do with helping families who need help to feed their children, then there wouldn't be income guidelines.

No one has said anyone should be ashamed to benefit from programs they qualify for. However, there are those taxpayers who feel like government assistance should be a very last, children will starve without it, option. Taxpayers will always have an opinion on welfare programs (yes, even those who have been in the shoes you speak of) because social programs are a major political platform.

When we get to a point where beneficiaries are complaining about the program and choosing not to use the service, it seems clear that the program isn't needed by all who partake (and from a fiscal standpoint, I don't think we should have programs for those who can get by without). I have equally strong opinions on how funds should be allocated for the other programs paid for in whole or part by tax dollars.
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:31 PM   #129
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Re: My first bad WIC experience

A few of the responses on this thread surprise me (don't ask me why I'm still surprised).

I would have thought that the more likely danger in the real world is that the "hassle" - (which is real, and even more onerous if you're low income, rely on public transport, are a single parent, and/or are working one or more jobs) - and/or the meagreness of resources might *prevent* people who actually need WIC from getting it. Not that a bunch of lazy scroungers might muster up the wherewithal to jump through some hoops to get a free box of cheerios.
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:31 PM   #130
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Financial aid is income based, tax breaks are income based....are these defined as welfare? I also forgot to mention that financial aid includes grants that are income based and never have to be repaid.
Grants are more akin to scholarships than government assistance, but I am equally happy classifying them as a government benefit.

There are tax breaks, like the EIC, that I consider to be welfare/government assistance,
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