Reply Hey Mom! Learn more about the Gerber Life Insurance Grow-Up Plan!
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-30-2012, 02:57 PM   #21
Nijntje
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 885
My Mood:
Re: Why give Vitamin K at all?

Quote:
Originally Posted by umphreysmommy View Post
I don't know why more hospitals don't do the oral.
Likely because you need more than one dose to be as effective as injectable vit k. Once babies leave the hospital, they have no way to know the parents will follow up on the next doses. I believe this is why the Hep B vaccine is administered at birth in the US as well.

Advertisement

__________________
"Fakt 48:
Facts still exist even if they are ignored." - Harvie Krumpet
Nijntje is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2012, 03:13 PM   #22
Green Decals's Avatar
Green Decals
Registered Users
Formerly: mumma1010
seller
seller
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,934
My Mood:
Re: Why give Vitamin K at all?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nijntje View Post
Likely because you need more than one dose to be as effective as injectable vit k. Once babies leave the hospital, they have no way to know the parents will follow up on the next doses. I believe this is why the Hep B vaccine is administered at birth in the US as well.
Exactly. Most babies don't get a follow-up visit with a ped until 2 weeks, so getting that recommended 1-week oral dose into them would require an extra office visit. Of course, the midwifery/homebirth model negates that issue, because postpartum care includes a 1-week visit
Green Decals is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2012, 03:40 PM   #23
DesertRat's Avatar
DesertRat
Registered Users
seller
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,547
Re: Why give Vitamin K at all?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Decals View Post
That is a very through article, but unfortunately it only addresses synthetic vitamin k, not REAL, plant-extracted vitamin K.
If we do it at all, I will do the plant-based Vitamin K.

There were a couple interesting things in that article that bothered me to learn about the vitamin K. It said even the oral vitamin k (probably the synthetic stuff) caused vitamin K levels to get to 300x the level of an adult before dropping off. And for the shot it said, "It is worth noting that after an intramuscular dose of vitamin K, the baby's plasma levels are almost 9000 times the normal adult levels." That can't be healthy.

Also, it said that because all formulas are supplemented with Vitamin K, formula-fed babies likely didn't need the Vitamin K from the shot or orally at all. They'd eventually get what they needed from formula.
DesertRat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2012, 03:43 PM   #24
DesertRat's Avatar
DesertRat
Registered Users
seller
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,547
Re: Why give Vitamin K at all?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nijntje View Post
Likely because you need more than one dose to be as effective as injectable vit k. Once babies leave the hospital, they have no way to know the parents will follow up on the next doses. I believe this is why the Hep B vaccine is administered at birth in the US as well.
Which is another beef I have with the medical community in general. They do whatever is fastest, easiest, and most likely to get done rather than what may be better. The link I quoted earlier mentioned studies done in other countries where the parents were responsible for giving the oral Vitamin K at home and found it to be just as effective. That'd be waaaay too much to expect of American parents. *eyeroll*
DesertRat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2012, 03:48 PM   #25
Nijntje
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 885
My Mood:
Re: Why give Vitamin K at all?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertRat View Post
Which is another beef I have with the medical community in general. They do whatever is fastest, easiest, and most likely to get done rather than what may be better. The link I quoted earlier mentioned studies done in other countries where the parents were responsible for giving the oral Vitamin K at home and found it to be just as effective. That'd be waaaay too much to expect of American parents. *eyeroll*
It's definitely the fastest and easiest way to potentially save the lives of children who fall through the cracks of America's healthcare system or whose parents simply don't care enough to follow up. You can roll your eyes, but it happens. Hospitals are doing a tremendous service by making this shot available, whether you agree with it for your child or not.

The Netherlands is probably one of those countries you mention. We give oral vit k standard here, but we also have practically universal, free access to healthcare for infants and toddlers regardless of the legal or insurance status of the parents.
__________________
"Fakt 48:
Facts still exist even if they are ignored." - Harvie Krumpet
Nijntje is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2012, 03:58 PM   #26
itiswhatitis1984's Avatar
itiswhatitis1984
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 499
My Mood:
I've been looking I to this and I think there is a huge misconception that if you have a girl or don't circ your son then there's no need for vitamin k. This is what I was told by someone and I was glad I did my own research! The vitamin k is to prevent brain bleeds. Yes I'm sure it would help if you were circ also but that's not the main reason for giving it to newborns. There's also a relatively long period of time that it can happen. It's not something you will most likely see at birth or shortly there after. If I remember correctly the threat of it usually starts around 3 weeks. I also think its something that isn't obvious as soon as it starts. We are opting out of the vac and instead giving him a low supplement over several weeks. I feel comfortable slowly increasing his levels with natural vitamin k supplement. Personally I don't want to take the risk of not doing anything and then having a brain bleed.
itiswhatitis1984 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2012, 03:59 PM   #27
itiswhatitis1984's Avatar
itiswhatitis1984
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 499
My Mood:
Quote:
Originally Posted by lady longs

Where do you buy the oral, "good stuff"???
Your midwife or Ob should be able to get it for you.
itiswhatitis1984 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2012, 05:09 PM   #28
Green Decals's Avatar
Green Decals
Registered Users
Formerly: mumma1010
seller
seller
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,934
My Mood:
Re: Why give Vitamin K at all?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertRat View Post
Which is another beef I have with the medical community in general. They do whatever is fastest, easiest, and most likely to get done rather than what may be better. The link I quoted earlier mentioned studies done in other countries where the parents were responsible for giving the oral Vitamin K at home and found it to be just as effective. That'd be waaaay too much to expect of American parents. *eyeroll*
I completely agree. It is sad, because I honestly believe that the risks associated with the shot outweigh the benefit of preventing that one in 2,000-20,000 brain bleed. But, that's the US medical system for you - and another aggravating factor in us having the highest maternal ans infant mortality rate of the developed world. Our attempts to "save" women and babies are, sadly, too often misguided.

How many babies, as a result of the vitamin K injection, suffer severe jaundice, and are hospitalized for it, or put on formula to "get over the jaundice", or subjected to another medical intervention that damages their nursing relationship leading to further medical complications and diseases down the road? I personally have known 3. Do I have scientific proof that the injection was the cause? No, but I know enough to know that, if I ever had the choice between the shot and nothing, there is no way in he11 that anyone is injecting that crap into my child's body. I would, truth be told, risk a brain bleed instead of getting the injection. (though you would probably find me muching on kale and spinach in the days following birth)
Green Decals is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 10:49 AM   #29
divergirldee's Avatar
divergirldee
Registered Users
seller
seller
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hockley, TX
Posts: 1,765
My Mood:
I have a genetic bleeding disorder (low/unfuntioning clotting factor, low platelets) that my children could inherit from me. We give the shot for this reason. My first birth (hb) was super easy and smooth, but gave the shot in the event ds1 inherited my bleeding disorder (and tests last year show he did). Ds2's birth was fast and furious and he had a tad bit of facial bruising, no way we'd deny the shot then. I will be asking my mw this time around about the oral vit k, but either way, we'll be giving it.
__________________
*Rosie* trying to be a crunchy mom to Logan Alexander 3/28/08, Axton Blake 4/4/11, & Bronn Everett 1/10/14
divergirldee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 12:33 PM   #30
canadianbakers's Avatar
canadianbakers
Registered Users
seller
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: MB, Canada
Posts: 9,221
My Mood:
Re: Why give Vitamin K at all?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertRat View Post
The baby was 33 days old. Typically by that age the baby should have had higher levels of Vitamin K, right? Before I get freaked out by this lone incident I'd like to know if there was an underlying medical reason for the low levels of Vitamin K. Since they baby's levels didn't come up on their own, would the shot have even helped at birth?
Here's a decent look at the varying reasons for Vit K deficiency, and when they could present with problems.
Personally, in a case like that baby, I think there was an underlying condition in the infant - possibly a liver disorder - which prevented his body from getting Vit K. Now, possibly the shot would have prevented the bleeding at 33 days... but the shot wouldn't boost levels forever, the body does need to start maintaining its own levels, so if the underlying condition was never found, the incident likely would have occurred at some point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nijntje View Post
Likely because you need more than one dose to be as effective as injectable vit k. Once babies leave the hospital, they have no way to know the parents will follow up on the next doses. I believe this is why the Hep B vaccine is administered at birth in the US as well.
Yes, it is very likely why. Unfortunately, there are enough cases where the parents wouldn't be responsible enough to carry through with the 5 weeks of supplements needed for the full dose of oral Vit K. So, to cover everyone, they recommend the shot.
Also, with the shot it's given and done. With the oral dose, the amount baby could get would depend on how much of it actually made it into the body, kwim?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nijntje View Post
It's definitely the fastest and easiest way to potentially save the lives of children who fall through the cracks of America's healthcare system or whose parents simply don't care enough to follow up. You can roll your eyes, but it happens. Hospitals are doing a tremendous service by making this shot available, whether you agree with it for your child or not.

The Netherlands is probably one of those countries you mention. We give oral vit k standard here, but we also have practically universal, free access to healthcare for infants and toddlers regardless of the legal or insurance status of the parents.
Exactly. It's unfortunate, but true.
And you have a good point about the cost of health care possibly contributing to the ability of the parents to provide medical care for their infant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by itiswhatitis1984 View Post
I've been looking I to this and I think there is a huge misconception that if you have a girl or don't circ your son then there's no need for vitamin k. This is what I was told by someone and I was glad I did my own research! The vitamin k is to prevent brain bleeds. Yes I'm sure it would help if you were circ also but that's not the main reason for giving it to newborns.
No, it isn't the main reason for giving it to baby. However, if there is no birth trauma or possible hereditary conditions and baby is healthy, the risk of bleeding is very low.

People have mentioned the Vit K in formula - it's also present in breastmilk, but in the hindmilk not foremilk. Feeding baby on demand, and making sure baby gets a good feed (both fore and hind milk, good latch, good sucking and swallowing), are both good ways for baby to increase their Vit K levels naturally.

I found it interesting that supplements for the mother in the third trimester did nothing to increase the levels in their newborns - Vit K does not pass through the placenta. But the nursing mom eating Vit K rich foods, or taking supplements, will help give baby more, again in the hindmilk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Decals View Post
It is sad, because I honestly believe that the risks associated with the shot outweigh the benefit of preventing that one in 2,000-20,000 brain bleed.

How many babies, as a result of the vitamin K injection, suffer severe jaundice, and are hospitalized for it, or put on formula to "get over the jaundice", or subjected to another medical intervention that damages their nursing relationship leading to further medical complications and diseases down the road? I personally have known 3.
Under normal circumstances (again, no birth trauma, no hereditary conditions that possibly could be passed to baby, and baby is healthy) I would agree with the risks outweighing the benefits. However, outside the those "normal" circumstances, I do think the benefit of the shot (having the levels increased all at once instead of over the 5 weeks the oral supplement is given) would outweigh the risks.
For example, if my baby is born with low platelets, having inherited my disorder, giving him the extra Vit K at birth is going to prevent bleeding moreso than gradually giving him a bit each day for weeks, kwim?

As to your other paragraph? Honestly? None. Zero. Not a single baby I've known, in all my friends IRL (all of which would have been given the shot at birth), have had any jaundice troubles that required anything more than simply nursing on demand instead of scheduling feeds.
__________________
~Elena~
Momma to R (12), Z (10), I (8), L (4), P (2) & J (Apr 14, 2015)
remembering Elliana Lucy (2.7.12)
canadianbakers is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Copyright 2005 - 2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.