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Old 01-16-2013, 05:56 PM   #171
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Re: The spanking debate.

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This provided me with a good 15 minutes of entertainment. Time to find a "I'm thinking about bottle feeding my newborn, what do y'all think?" thread...

Soryr fro typos. Setn by iPhone.

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Old 01-16-2013, 06:13 PM   #172
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Re: The spanking debate.

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I just wanted to say, to happy2Bamommy that although, yes, anger shouldn't have a place in rearing children and children shouldn't be spanked in anger, most times they are imo. I am NOT saying that anyone who says they very calmly spank is lying but I'm just telling you, any smacks or spanking I've seen dished out were absolutely in anger. Publicly and privately, with strangers and people that I know.
That is very sad. I would very much be against people spanking like that. Poor kiddos.
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Old 01-16-2013, 06:24 PM   #173
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Re: The spanking debate.

I think that we all kind of agree here - in a certain sense.

We all agree that children should never be abused.

We all agree that parenting takes LOTS of time, effort, thought, sensitivity, patience, strength, etc.

We all agree that punishing children is not and should not ever be "fun" or anything other than a way to teach a child proper healthy behavior that is good for him/her and for others.

AND I think we ALL agree that spanking CAN be (and is) misused.

I think pretty much ANY other form of punishment can ALSO be misused.

For example, if I sent my child repeatedly to time out in his/her room just to get him/her out of my hair and not have to deal with him/her, with no real reason for doing it - that would be lazy parenting. And also Not Very Nice.

Time outs can also be used well and with great effect.

Some children will NEVER be benefited by a time out, just as some children will NEVER be benefited by a spanking.

I think that the only polite thing to do is to assume that the pro-spanking folk on this thread are pro-only a certain type of spanking. That is:

1) NEVER in anger/when angry.
2) Always as a logical, forewarned about consequence (as with any type of punishment).
3) NEVER as a way to lash out and get things over with.
4) Always as a teaching moment in which the bad behavior is explained, etc.
5) NEVER used in excess: ie., too many "spanks," too hard, etc.
6) Always followed up by love and hugs.

That is what I have gotten from this thread. If anyone believes THIS type of spanking to be abusive, or to create criminals, I think THAT is the argument to have.

I don't believe anyone here is arguing that beating or lashing out angrily against ones children is an effective form of discipline.

I also think that when it comes down to it, it is angry parenting that is harmful. Unfortunately, the most blatant form of angry parenting is when parents angrily and excessively and wrongly "spank" their children, leading to the statistic that spanked children are messed up.

But what about all the other ways that anger and lack of control are made manifest.

Who here has not yelled and felt bad and felt that this was ineffective. That's because anger in "discipline" is ineffective and damaging.

I believe that if you parent angrily and don't spank, you will do more harm than someone who spanks, but never in anger and always with control and logic behind it.

That said, I don't think it's necessarily a decision: "I spank." Some children should never be spanked. It's not their personality, and personality should be taken into consideration. What works for one won't work for all.

I think we all agree with this.

My dad spanked me angrily. It didn't do a lick of good. It made ME angry. I would have benefited IMMENSELY from punishments like having privileges taken away, etc. I feared that much more than even an angry, harsh spanking.

On the other hand, my mother NEVER spanked me. But she was super lenient with me and let me walk all over her. This was JUST as harmful. I needed boundaries. I wanted boundaries. Every child ticks differently. It's up to the parents to figure out what works best.

So will I spank? I don't know. My daughter is only 7 months old. But if I have already tried other methods of teaching proper behavior and they haven't worked, and I think a spanking would, then I would try it, absolutely.

I have never met a child who was properly spanked and properly disciplined otherwise who a) turned out badly or b) thought spanking was bad or c) had a bad relationship with their parents.

That said - I know parents who parented beautifully (spanking or not) whose children turned out pretty rotten in various ways, and children who were parented very poorly (spanking or not) who turned out great!

I happen to think I turned out okay - and I think my parents were pretty terrible disciplinarians. They agree with me.

I do think proper parenting matters, but do a certain degree, we have to give our children the credit of realizing that they are not just products of our decisions. Ultimately, they will turn out the way they choose. We have to hope that we teach them to choose well.
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Old 01-16-2013, 06:26 PM   #174
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Re: The spanking debate.

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Originally Posted by Almacham View Post
I just wanted to say, to happy2Bamommy that although, yes, anger shouldn't have a place in rearing children and children shouldn't be spanked in anger, most times they are imo. I am NOT saying that anyone who says they very calmly spank is lying but I'm just telling you, any smacks or spanking I've seen dished out were absolutely in anger. Publicly and privately, with strangers and people that I know.
This could be said of anyone, even those that don't spank. I have seen plenty of people in public be down right awful to their kids without a spanking being involved. Too many people react out of anger toward their children, it has nothing to do with whether they spank or not. It is a sad thing imo.
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:01 PM   #175
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Re: The spanking debate.

We spank and we also absolutely expect first time obedience. It's great to know that I'm an abuser

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I am very anti spanking!!!

I have nothing but foul nasty words for those who do spank & wish they were more interested in seeking the resources to become better patents than they are in smacking their kids.

What really disgusts me is the large # of spanking parents who scream animal abuse when a stranger smacks a puppy for disobedience but have no problem with smacking their own child ?!?!
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Exactly!!! I 110% believe that parents who strive to get first time obedience from their children are raising their children in an abusive manner. We are not a species of unthinking command following robots. My children are raised to be free thinkers who will never be afraid to question anything and seek new knowledge. Blind obedience - especially blind obedience taught through violence, threats, manipulation, and the like is also my #1 problem with religion. My children are not sheep!!!
Hey If spanking my kids keeps them form behaving the way you have in this thread than I did a good job.
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:10 PM   #176
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Re: The spanking debate.

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I also think that when it comes down to it, it is angry parenting that is harmful. Unfortunately, the most blatant form of angry parenting is when parents angrily and excessively and wrongly "spank" their children, leading to the statistic that spanked children are messed up.

But what about all the other ways that anger and lack of control are made manifest.

Who here has not yelled and felt bad and felt that this was ineffective. That's because anger in "discipline" is ineffective and damaging.

I believe that if you parent angrily and don't spank, you will do more harm than someone who spanks, but never in anger and always with control and logic behind it.
The rest of what you said was very good, too. I wanted to address the above snippet. I was spanked as a child mostly by my mother. At some point, my parents decided that my father was too explosive to spank me, so they made the decision for him to not. (I learned this as an adult as I just remember Mom as the spanker.)

Even though, he didn't spank, he yelled in anger and rage-a lot. He really was overboard and lacked temper control. I hated the yelling-even when it wasn't aimed at me. I can remember distinctly many times that he yelled at me, my sister, or my mother. I can remember the time that he threw me on my bed and called me a little "female dog." I can even hear the tone of his voice. But he didn't spank me.

I can honestly only remember two times my mother spanked me. Both times I didn't believe I had done anything wrong. One of those times, she figured it out and apologized to me.

Guess who I have a better relationship with as an adult? Guess who I felt safe enough to come talk to?
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:41 PM   #177
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Re: The spanking debate.

I'm astounded this thread is still open!

I agree with dorajoan. I personally have chosen not to spank. My son is very sensitive (as am I). But I think angry parenting is far worse than a spanking done in a loving manner, even if that approach is one I choose not to take. For the record, I was spanked and it didn't ruin me, but I do think it eroded my ability to confide in my parents.
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:42 PM   #178
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Re: The spanking debate.

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Guess who I have a better relationship with as an adult? Guess who I felt safe enough to come talk to?
The one that spanked you?
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:53 PM   #179
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Use the handy dandy search feature at the top of the screen and you will find the answer to your question swiftly.
Haha. True oh so true.

Only a newbie or glutton for DS punishment asks such a question. :hides:

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Old 01-16-2013, 07:55 PM   #180
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Re: The spanking debate.

Perfectly said. I have four children and you hit the nail right on the head

Quote:
Originally Posted by dorajoan View Post
I think that we all kind of agree here - in a certain sense.

We all agree that children should never be abused.

We all agree that parenting takes LOTS of time, effort, thought, sensitivity, patience, strength, etc.

We all agree that punishing children is not and should not ever be "fun" or anything other than a way to teach a child proper healthy behavior that is good for him/her and for others.

AND I think we ALL agree that spanking CAN be (and is) misused.

I think pretty much ANY other form of punishment can ALSO be misused.

For example, if I sent my child repeatedly to time out in his/her room just to get him/her out of my hair and not have to deal with him/her, with no real reason for doing it - that would be lazy parenting. And also Not Very Nice.

Time outs can also be used well and with great effect.

Some children will NEVER be benefited by a time out, just as some children will NEVER be benefited by a spanking.

I think that the only polite thing to do is to assume that the pro-spanking folk on this thread are pro-only a certain type of spanking. That is:

1) NEVER in anger/when angry.
2) Always as a logical, forewarned about consequence (as with any type of punishment).
3) NEVER as a way to lash out and get things over with.
4) Always as a teaching moment in which the bad behavior is explained, etc.
5) NEVER used in excess: ie., too many "spanks," too hard, etc.
6) Always followed up by love and hugs.

That is what I have gotten from this thread. If anyone believes THIS type of spanking to be abusive, or to create criminals, I think THAT is the argument to have.

I don't believe anyone here is arguing that beating or lashing out angrily against ones children is an effective form of discipline.

I also think that when it comes down to it, it is angry parenting that is harmful. Unfortunately, the most blatant form of angry parenting is when parents angrily and excessively and wrongly "spank" their children, leading to the statistic that spanked children are messed up.

But what about all the other ways that anger and lack of control are made manifest.

Who here has not yelled and felt bad and felt that this was ineffective. That's because anger in "discipline" is ineffective and damaging.

I believe that if you parent angrily and don't spank, you will do more harm than someone who spanks, but never in anger and always with control and logic behind it.

That said, I don't think it's necessarily a decision: "I spank." Some children should never be spanked. It's not their personality, and personality should be taken into consideration. What works for one won't work for all.

I think we all agree with this.

My dad spanked me angrily. It didn't do a lick of good. It made ME angry. I would have benefited IMMENSELY from punishments like having privileges taken away, etc. I feared that much more than even an angry, harsh spanking.

On the other hand, my mother NEVER spanked me. But she was super lenient with me and let me walk all over her. This was JUST as harmful. I needed boundaries. I wanted boundaries. Every child ticks differently. It's up to the parents to figure out what works best.

So will I spank? I don't know. My daughter is only 7 months old. But if I have already tried other methods of teaching proper behavior and they haven't worked, and I think a spanking would, then I would try it, absolutely.

I have never met a child who was properly spanked and properly disciplined otherwise who a) turned out badly or b) thought spanking was bad or c) had a bad relationship with their parents.

That said - I know parents who parented beautifully (spanking or not) whose children turned out pretty rotten in various ways, and children who were parented very poorly (spanking or not) who turned out great!

I happen to think I turned out okay - and I think my parents were pretty terrible disciplinarians. They agree with me.

I do think proper parenting matters, but do a certain degree, we have to give our children the credit of realizing that they are not just products of our decisions. Ultimately, they will turn out the way they choose. We have to hope that we teach them to choose well.
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