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Old 01-20-2013, 08:53 PM   #11
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Re: Would you give up?

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Originally Posted by silvaheyes View Post
Take videos.. It's hard to ignore or be in denial if the proof is right there in front of them. It's no longer a he said she said deal if you have actual proof he is doing these things and behaving this way.

Videos/documentation helped a lot for us. People couldn't sit back and say they didn't believe us if they could watch the many clips we took of everything.
We have a couple but we also got a new one for the bedroom tonight. We need to see what he is doing to his brother in the morning before we get up.

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I don't think it will be hard at all for her to believe. I think is is probably pretty common, especially in that time frame, from what i have read. it is so heartbreaking.
Yeah that makes me really sad!

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I had to have a placement moved once. It was something I always feared, but I knew immediately it wasn't going to work and therefore had no regrets. I knew within the first hour. She tore apart my house. She would grab me by the shirt when I walked by. Screamed hysterically when you put her to bed. I knew I was in over my head. I called immediately to have her moved and in the time it took to get her picked up, she began hurting my other children and animals. Now if I didn't have other kids, I would stick it out, but you have to protect everyone involved.
I wish I had known immediately!!

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This is why the general recommendation is to not take kids older than your youngest. These behaviors are not at all unusual for foster children and really not even extreme. Nothing compared to the stories we hear in our training. I know someone who has a bio son who does the same thing to his little sister (even same car scenario). Yes, the boy has issues, but just know this is not that unusual of behavior. In your circumstance, you do have your own son to protect, but just know the agency probably won't be very pleased to move him "just" for that and depending on the need of your agency, may prevent you from getting other placements. JMO, of course. I hope you can get it resolved one way or another.
I did not want to take older. Our agency really pushed hard because they were in a bind. These kids had to transfer agencies because their previous agency could not find a place for them to go. Our area is really in need of foster families for all ages.

The behaviors just continue to escalate by the day. It has become every time I turn my head it is some other way to hurt the other kids. Time outs are completely ineffective.

We have tried being ultra positive and giving as much attention as we can and we have tried ignoring. Neither helps. The behaviors are worse when you ignore him but they happen either way. I think because as much as I try I have three young boys and a full time online school schedule let alone household chores like cooking and cleaning etc. I simply just don't have the time to devote the one on one that his needs demand.

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Old 01-21-2013, 06:29 AM   #12
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Re: Would you give up?

I think in your gut you already know what you are going to do. It sounds like you believe disrupting is best for this situation. It's okay, most foster parents end up having to disrupt at some point or they barely survive the placement if the dont disrupt. It's a hard decision to make.

I once had a placement that when I tried to explain to others how bad it was it sounded like somewhat typical behaviors. But I knew in my gut it was more. The behaviors worsened by the day. Everyday became about trying to prevent him from hurting self or others in the home. Even though the behaviors were typical pinching, biting, scratching, tantrums. They became more often and more intense daily. He too responded to no discipline or positive reinforcement. I have a lot of experience in child care and nothing prepared me for this. He was a charmer to the visit supervisors and SW. I road out his placement bc they had family identified. He was here a month. With permission, the last week he spent much of the time in a carseat fastened to the leg of a couch or strapped in a high chair. When he left, I was black and blue covered with teeth marks, scratches and pinches.

I kept thinking it would get better but it only got worse. We almost quit fostering. Cede took 3 months off to decide and only took 18 months and younger for awhile. Him and his sister went to their aunt. He was back in the system shortly after but a therapeutic home. He was only 2 but he was definitely showing signs if RAD. If I knew that things were going to end up that bad, I would have disrupted.

You need to follow your gut. If disrupting causes you to not get placements then you need to decide if it is a risk you are willing to take. Good luck and praying that you can manage for however long he is with you.
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:16 AM   #13
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Re: Would you give up?

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I think in your gut you already know what you are going to do. It sounds like you believe disrupting is best for this situation. It's okay, most foster parents end up having to disrupt at some point or they barely survive the placement if the dont disrupt. It's a hard decision to make.

I once had a placement that when I tried to explain to others how bad it was it sounded like somewhat typical behaviors. But I knew in my gut it was more. The behaviors worsened by the day. Everyday became about trying to prevent him from hurting self or others in the home. Even though the behaviors were typical pinching, biting, scratching, tantrums. They became more often and more intense daily. He too responded to no discipline or positive reinforcement. I have a lot of experience in child care and nothing prepared me for this. He was a charmer to the visit supervisors and SW. I road out his placement bc they had family identified. He was here a month. With permission, the last week he spent much of the time in a carseat fastened to the leg of a couch or strapped in a high chair. When he left, I was black and blue covered with teeth marks, scratches and pinches.

I kept thinking it would get better but it only got worse. We almost quit fostering. Cede took 3 months off to decide and only took 18 months and younger for awhile. Him and his sister went to their aunt. He was back in the system shortly after but a therapeutic home. He was only 2 but he was definitely showing signs if RAD. If I knew that things were going to end up that bad, I would have disrupted.

You need to follow your gut. If disrupting causes you to not get placements then you need to decide if it is a risk you are willing to take. Good luck and praying that you can manage for however long he is with you.
Thank you mama. It makes me feel better to know someone else has BTDT. It dose sound semi normal to some people but I can promise you it is not normal. I have worked for many years in child care and even some work with foster kids in the day care setting. I did get a few videos today that show some of the behavior but they are subdued compared to normal.

On video is him climbing into the crib and hitting brother in the head until he wakes up.

The next is him ripping up paper and trying to feed it to brother. On video I went in and asked him why he did it. He said "So Little-Man would eat it" I said "What happens if he eats it" X-Man said " He will get sick"

Mind you Little man has done nothing but get woken up with hitting to this point......
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:42 AM   #14
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Re: Would you give up?

I certainly wouldn't blame you for disrupting. You have to put your family first. Period.


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Thank you mama. It makes me feel better to know someone else has BTDT. It dose sound semi normal to some people but I can promise you it is not normal. I have worked for many years in child care and even some work with foster kids in the day care setting. I did get a few videos today that show some of the behavior but they are subdued compared to normal.

On video is him climbing into the crib and hitting brother in the head until he wakes up.

The next is him ripping up paper and trying to feed it to brother. On video I went in and asked him why he did it. He said "So Little-Man would eat it" I said "What happens if he eats it" X-Man said " He will get sick"

Mind you Little man has done nothing but get woken up with hitting to this point......
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Old 01-21-2013, 11:02 AM   #15
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I think what you are describing sounds typical...of a disturbed child in the system. Not anywhere near normal behavior. I am not trying to be mean, but I'm afraid your agency did not prepare you very well if you are surprised by this behavior. I know it's bad, and I dont think you are wrong for disrupting AT ALL. This is why so many homes only take babies and toddlers and why treatment homes get a higher reimbursement rate. Its not "normal" and it's not easy and if you are in over your head it's not your fault. I would stop now and not think twice.
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Old 01-21-2013, 12:27 PM   #16
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Re: Would you give up?

I don't think it matters whether the behavior is normal, abnormal, or normal of a child in the system. All that matters is whether or not you can keep everyone safe. Who is to say what he will do next. If you had only one other child to worry about or did not have a living situation that required him sharing a room with someone...it might be a completely different story. If you decide to disrupt, I would emphasize that you are not able to watch everyone 100% of the time ( a girls gotta turn her back to make dinner, do laundry, drive, and pee) Also emphasize that due to the living arrangements, the other kids will always be at risk while you are sleeping. This child needs to be in a home with no other children, imo.
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Old 01-21-2013, 12:31 PM   #17
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Re: Would you give up?

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I think what you are describing sounds typical...of a disturbed child in the system. Not anywhere near normal behavior. I am not trying to be mean, but I'm afraid your agency did not prepare you very well if you are surprised by this behavior. I know it's bad, and I dont think you are wrong for disrupting AT ALL. This is why so many homes only take babies and toddlers and why treatment homes get a higher reimbursement rate. Its not "normal" and it's not easy and if you are in over your head it's not your fault. I would stop now and not think twice.
THIS. I didn't mean it was normal behavior by any means, but exactly what new mommy said. My friend's son has serious issues that his parents may or may not realize but it is far from normal behavior. I'm glad my agency paints this worst case scenario picture for us and tells us to say no to placements if we hesitate at all. I've said no many times and no one has ever pressured me after saying that. Sounds like you know what you're going to do and make sure you've documented all these behaviors. Next time stick to one at a time under your son's age (as I assume you will!) and be firm. Put blame on your son if you need to. I've bluntly told callers I do not take kids older than my youngest son and that is that. Now you can even say BTDT and it was horrible. GL to you.
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Old 01-21-2013, 01:30 PM   #18
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Re: Would you give up?

Thanks Ladies. Like I said I absolutely understand this type of thing goes with the territory to some extent and I desperately wish I could explain this better but it is not what I expected because it is not out of anger. Its so calculated. He does his worst damage when he is completely calm. We had another child for a few days and he was what I imagined. Hyper, difficult, hit sometimes, pushed etc. He was almost 4. I was a little worried that he would hurt DS but it would not have been planned out. It would have been: I want this toy and I am going to pull it from you or You made me angry I am going to hit you. NOT I have thought about this for the last 20 minutes and now I am going to carry it out. I don't know. I guess its hard to understand what happens in others homes We are definitely disrupting. I am just waiting to do it the right way when everyone is back in the office tomorrow. I do think the two biggest issues are A: I cannot seperate him from the other kids in the car to stop him from pinching and scratching. B: I only have one bedroom and he should definately NOT be sharing a room with his brother.

Just a little big ago during nap time I watching him on the video. Little man was sleeping again. Everyone had calmed down and was going to sleep. He quietly got out of bed. Poked Little mans face until he woke up. When he stood up he pushed him hard and made him hit his head on the crib.

It simply never ends....

I really do feel bad about it and trust me I get itI did the wrong thing here. I feel horrible about it and the things you ladies point out are correct. I just feel like a terrible person on all fronts here
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:53 PM   #19
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Re: Would you give up?

Nope, don't do that to yourself. I did it. Don't do it. You tried. Now you know that due to your car and living situations, you have to stick to x,y, and z. With the information you give them, they will now be able to find a home better fit. The placement I had to disrupt went to a home with no other kids who could tag team the girls. Do NOT do that to yourself.
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Old 01-21-2013, 04:54 PM   #20
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Re: Would you give up?

What's done is done. I agree. Don't go there. Do what you can do to make sure he gets in a home that is prepared for his needs. Doing things calculated like that and not out of anger actually isn't unusual (for foster children) but a sign of greater problems for sure. It wasn't fair to you to have no idea of his needs so I really hope your agency takes this seriously.
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