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Old 02-12-2014, 05:09 PM   #1
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Intentional peeing and yelling, UPDATE post #16

Spider-Man is going to be five in a month. When he is angry because he has to spend time in his room he pees. He pees the bed or pulls his pants down and pees on the floor. The smell is horrible. I got a steam cleaner and went over and over it. My back was killing my by the time I was done. About a week later he has peed at least four times. Today I spread Arm and Hammer carpet powder over everything. I didn't want to do this but I have to get the smell out. ugh What can I do to make him stop. This is mostly happening in the morning before I wake up.

Also a morning issue. He wakes up around 5am and starts yelling and being loud. What can I do to get him to stop. I have started wearing ear plugs so I can get some sleep. There is no way I can adjust my schedule to be up that early. Its just not going to happen.

We have tons of behavioral issues but these two are the top ones I cant deal with anymore

He takes clondine at night but it only helps him fall asleep, it does not keep him asleep long enough.

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Old 02-13-2014, 05:43 AM   #2
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There isn't much you can do for the 5am stuff. We went through a 4am phase here. I started leaving an apple and his iPad in his room at night. I figured they gave me 15-30 minutes. White noise has helped keep him asleep

I don't know what's practical for your ds. I'd think about making him help clean it or losing a toy each time he pees

I wouldn't tell at him for peeing because he's doing it to make you angry. If be very flat when I addressed it. Do you think he does it for your reaction or to get out if his room? What's his biggest gain?

Can he get different consequences? Potty chair or a bucket in his room to pee in?
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Old 02-13-2014, 07:56 AM   #3
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Re: Intentional peeing and yelling, Ideas please

I think he feels it's where he has control. We have tried giving him more areas of control. I do think he wants me to be angry but I don't give him much response. I have put footie pajamas on backward and safety pinned them but than he wants to use the diaper. I can't deal with that. Ugh
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Old 02-13-2014, 11:46 AM   #4
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Re: Intentional peeing and yelling, Ideas please

Ask his OT, attachment therapist and his psychologist for their suggestions.

Probably not until after adoption finalization, but I would take everything out of his room including furniture, carpet, bedding, all except waterproof toddler mattress, locks on closet or dresser, etc. Tell him he has to earn it back by taking care of his things which includes not peeing on them. One thing back after each week of no peeing; he can pick which thing first.

Ear plugs are a great idea for you. You want the problem to be his not yours as much as possible. I know he's not that old so you ultimately have the clean up problem, but make it his as much as you can. Anything like the ear plugs that allows you to not be bothered is good. Removing things from his room makes less work for you and moves the problem (not having anything in his room) onto him. Behaviors will likely get better with more time.

Another one I might try first is telling him that you talked to the doctor who said that peeing in inappropriate places means he needs more sleep. For every day he pees in his room you will move his bedtime up by maybe 30 minutes. If he is eventually going to bed after lunch, that's fine. One day with no peeing gets his bedtime back to normal, etc. This is from John Rosemond who I love, and he says it usually doesn't take more than a couple weeks for this to work.
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Old 02-13-2014, 03:32 PM   #5
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Re: Intentional peeing and yelling, Ideas please

My youngest was an anger pee-er, he also wet the bed but the two issues really aren't related (the doctor wondered for a while but they don't seem to be). He toilet trained early, just decided one day at 22 months that he didn't like diapers anymore and he had remarkably few accidents. Then at 4 he started peeing himself. He would also hide in his closet and poop his pants (thankfully that didn't happen too often though he did poop himself while we were out as late as last summer at 7 years old). At first it was little things like missing the toilet by a little bit when he peed or having an accident occasionally but it just kept getting bigger and bigger. I went into my bathroom one day to find he had peed with the toilet lid closed and soaked pretty much the entire bathroom.

I did make him clean the bathroom every time he missed the toilet. At this point bathroom cleaning is just his job because on occasion he still misses and he is the only one who does (I live in a house with three boys and only one misses, not too bad). He didn't pee much on the floor in his own room, usually in the living room and we have wood floors luckily. What helped him most was getting him on proper medication.
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Old 02-14-2014, 09:09 PM   #6
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Re: Intentional peeing and yelling, Ideas please

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnymommy View Post
Ask his OT, attachment therapist and his psychologist for their suggestions.

Probably not until after adoption finalization, but I would take everything out of his room including furniture, carpet, bedding, all except waterproof toddler mattress, locks on closet or dresser, etc. Tell him he has to earn it back by taking care of his things which includes not peeing on them. One thing back after each week of no peeing; he can pick which thing first.

Ear plugs are a great idea for you. You want the problem to be his not yours as much as possible. I know he's not that old so you ultimately have the clean up problem, but make it his as much as you can. Anything like the ear plugs that allows you to not be bothered is good. Removing things from his room makes less work for you and moves the problem (not having anything in his room) onto him. Behaviors will likely get better with more time.

Another one I might try first is telling him that you talked to the doctor who said that peeing in inappropriate places means he needs more sleep. For every day he pees in his room you will move his bedtime up by maybe 30 minutes. If he is eventually going to bed after lunch, that's fine. One day with no peeing gets his bedtime back to normal, etc. This is from John Rosemond who I love, and he says it usually doesn't take more than a couple weeks for this to work.
I have begged every therapist for advice on how to parent this child and I get mostly "I don't knows". Its so isolating and hard to deal with at times. I have tried taking everything away but he really doesn't care. He has experienced trauma and has learned to not attach to things. He doesn't have favorite toys or luvies or anything like that. I have taken everything out several times and given it all back several times.

I wanted to make him clean it up but the steam cleaner is too big for him to control. I guess I could have him scrub it even if its not really doing any good. I did make him vacuum all the powder though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iris0110 View Post
My youngest was an anger pee-er, he also wet the bed but the two issues really aren't related (the doctor wondered for a while but they don't seem to be). He toilet trained early, just decided one day at 22 months that he didn't like diapers anymore and he had remarkably few accidents. Then at 4 he started peeing himself. He would also hide in his closet and poop his pants (thankfully that didn't happen too often though he did poop himself while we were out as late as last summer at 7 years old). At first it was little things like missing the toilet by a little bit when he peed or having an accident occasionally but it just kept getting bigger and bigger. I went into my bathroom one day to find he had peed with the toilet lid closed and soaked pretty much the entire bathroom.

I did make him clean the bathroom every time he missed the toilet. At this point bathroom cleaning is just his job because on occasion he still misses and he is the only one who does (I live in a house with three boys and only one misses, not too bad). He didn't pee much on the floor in his own room, usually in the living room and we have wood floors luckily. What helped him most was getting him on proper medication.
He has had accidents since we took placement 10 months ago. They were pretty infrequent and seemed related to stress. This peeing all over his room I think is a protest against us controlling him. He tells me "No one can make be be good" I think this is his way of making that point. The problem is he is right. I cant really make him use the toilet. I make him take a cool shower after. I did this because I have to help him a bit and I didn't want it to be a fun time to hang out with mom. Getting my attention to himself.


Agh I feel like there is no help sometimes. I feel like sometimes we are beyond the help that is out there. We have tried so many things and so many ways
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Old 02-16-2014, 03:12 PM   #7
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Re: Intentional peeing and yelling, Ideas please

We have a membership to the YMCA in our area. Last night was parents night out. DH and I never go anywhere without the kids so this was great for us. Kids had fun but the caregivers said Spider-man did have trouble listening. While DH and I went out we stopped at the mall. Crazy 8's was having an amazing sale so we got the boys both clothes for as little as 1-2 dollars a piece. I got a couple things for other kids in my family. One being my nephew that is in a much larger size the Spider-Man. When we got home Spider-Man saw all the stuff I got for him but he asked about the bigger shirt. I said that was for someone else. He didn't say much about it. An hour or so later he said "I'm going to put this shirt on." I told him no but he could put on any of the shirts that I gave him. He did and I didn't hear anymore about it.

Skip to this morning. I was downstairs napping with my niece who came in the wee hours of the morning for me to babysit. DH was upstairs. At 9am Spider-man wakes DH with his yelling "Daddy". DH was worried because of two things. 1. He usually kicks off much before 9am 2. He usually says "I have to go to the bathroom. Not calling for us by name.

I know he was not screaming before because I was not sleeping very hard and I was right below his room. I could hear him.

DH goes in and Spider-Man has taken all of his clothes off and pooped on the floor. DH just closed the door and came and got me. I went up and made him scrub it clean. Found out he had an accident in his bed so I made him scrub that too.

After much effort I was able to get him to tell me what happened. First he had an accident. He woke up and took his clothes off to change. When he pulled out his shirt he "remembered" the DS wore that shirt and he was angry at DS for wearing it. He put the shirt in the pile of dirty clothes and peed on it. Than while he was angry he remembered the shirt I got for my nephew that was too big for Spider-Man. He was mad at me so he pooped on the floor. I can't get over the irrational anger. The worst part is. DS NEVER wore that shirt. This was all contrived in Spider-mans head.

The other thing that bothers me is we just ignored that he was bad when we were gone. I ignored him when he said "Mommy they let me have pop". He knows I don't allow it at home so he was taunting me. I just said "OH THAT'S GREAT" When he was mean to DS I did the role play with him. I was Spider man and showed him how he was being mean. I showed him how it makes you feel bad. I showed him and role played a better way to talk and play. I feel like I am doing everything I can!! Nothing happened to cause this except what he contrived in his own head. How can I combat that. What can I do when this is all in his own mind?????? I just want to break down and cry.
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Old 02-16-2014, 08:06 PM   #8
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Mmbreb- I've been following your story both on the sn board but also mostly on the fostering board as I'm also a fp and I just want to send you tons and tons of hugs

I am so so sorry you are going through this. I wish I could do or say more to help I am just truly SOO sorry. I know firsthand how tough these kiddos can be but man you have had a rough road. I wish I could offer more than hugs but please know I think about you and your family often and wish you the best
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Old 02-16-2014, 09:14 PM   #9
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Re: Intentional peeing and yelling, UPDATE post #7

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Mmbreb- I've been following your story both on the sn board but also mostly on the fostering board as I'm also a fp and I just want to send you tons and tons of hugs

I am so so sorry you are going through this. I wish I could do or say more to help I am just truly SOO sorry. I know firsthand how tough these kiddos can be but man you have had a rough road. I wish I could offer more than hugs but please know I think about you and your family often and wish you the best
I want to say thank you for this. It makes me feel a little better to know that this is not normal. To know that I am doing the best I can under the circumstances and I am not a complete failure. Sometimes I feel like this is all my fault.
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Old 02-17-2014, 09:52 PM   #10
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Hang in there. It will likely take years for him to trust you. Keep being as consistent as you can. Point out everything good he does.

Can you change the focus? He gets a reward every time he poops in a toilet. Or pees in it? He might get 20 rewards a day but hopefully it would put the focus on the positive behavior. Or he could get a big reward for every 5 pees in a toilet. Whatever u can stick to

Try to reward him when he shows his anger in appropriate ways. Yelling might even be better. Something he can tear up? A pool noodle to beat on walls. Has he ever coped a different way. Something that makes him feel like he is being naughty but still not popping on the floor. He would get rewarded each time. Even if he was practicing (not really mad but wanted a reward). I haven't found this to be a quick fix either but it can make it easier to see a bit of progress

You could still have a consistent consequence too

Dsd has anger issues. She can go to the backyard or her room to yell. She also records herself complaining, makes her feel like she's been heard. She has consequences if she screams at someone but we praise her for doing those (that's enough reward for her)
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