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Old 01-31-2013, 10:13 PM   #11
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Re: If you support Scouting for all

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Originally Posted by Joyful Tie Dyes View Post
Here are some hightlights from some conversations I have been having with some good Christian BSA parents. (Names withheld to protect the guilty )

In response to a comment that many BSA parents are in favor of the change:

BD: "Yea looking for your 15 minutes of fame. Destroy an awesome tradition. Get a life and persue something worthwhile. You are so blinded by your own agenda you don't care or refuse to see the whole picture. I don't want my child to sleep in a tent, shower, or chance being left alone with someone who is gay. I will protect my child. So will the majority. You have the right to put your child in harms way. Start your own gay scouts don't force good people to leave the BSA so you can have your 15 minutes."

D: Please understand that this is a Private Organization found on a set of beliefs and principles. It is not for everyone. Why force your way into something that you don't agree with. Start another group.

L: I was a Girl Scout and quite enjoyed it. Girls Scouts is an inclusive organization, it's never been an issue. I just think it's a shame for such a great organization to not welcome ALL boys.

We've been here before. The back of the bus, a separate water fountain, different schools...Separate but equal is never equal. It took almost 100 years for BSA to charter "black troops" and it wasn't until the late 1940's that troops were allowed to be integrated.

D: I'm not suggesting separate but equal. There are other factors that come into play. Youth Protection being one of them. Also this decision could open up for more changes from other outside groups. Again all of these go against the founding principles that I personally, believe in and try to instill in these young men.

M: If a gay is not practicing because he knows the act is a sin then I don't have a problem with him being in Scouts. In fact, he doesn't need to tell me a darn thing about his preferences. But if he is practicing, I want to know because I don't want them pressuring other scouts into anything. Same for molesters, who by definition: are at least bisexual since they go after children of the same sex.

M: I am not proud of my sins. I don't lead parades to celebrate my sins. I do not fill liberated by telling everyone about my sins and that you have to accept my sins as unsinful behavior. As a Christian, I stand for God's word which means rebuking those who claim it is in error or outright false. Do you? Obviously not, since you believe nothing is wrong with homosexuality. How about someone into bestiality? Necrophilia? What is wrong with the North American, Man Boy Love Association? I am sure they would love to be Scout leaders. Maybe convince your sons that their agenda is acceptable and good.

L: It's absurd to think all gay males are sexual predators.

J: Saying no gays are predators is as ignorant as saying all gays are. How are you going to figure out who is and who isn't? Are you willing to risk my son's innocence? If a gay is a predator, you are giving them captive prey.

D: I realize there has always been both gay leaders and gay scouts. That is a personal problem that they must deal with. The fact that they have ultimately lied to everyone including theirselves every time they say the Scout Oath and Law. But for the BSA to change policy and make it possible for them to join is different.

L2: Not all Christians believe that Mark. In Leviticus the act being condemned is rape. The English word "abomination" is used as a translation for the Hebrew word meaning "unclean". The same word that's used for eating pork and to describe a woman who is menstruating. In Paul's letters to the apostles he uses a word that has in recent times been translated as homosexual. That word appears nowhere in ancient Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic. Scholars literally have no idea what it means. There are 613 commandments in the old testament. I doubt seriously you wish to be forced to follow them all. If you don't them you have to discard Leviticus as a guide. That leave the ONLY mention of homosexuality in the new testament with Paul and a word no one knows the meaning to. This is why many Christians question the belief that God hates homosexuals. We are all created in His image but we are all different. We are none the less just the way God made us. Incidentally the word often translated as sodomite is arsenokoitai. Scholars believe a more accurate translation is "man with many beds" or someone who is promiscuous.

S: Didn't God create Adam and Eve? Not Adam and Steve? That's what my bible says.

M: I'll leave the conversation. You can't argue with a liberal. They can only see their side. I have no problem with a person doing whatever they want in their personal life. I do have a problem when they encroach on private citizens and private organizations to force their views down our throats, which is what some of the people in this discussion want to do. I can only pray that GOd shows mercy on all of YOUR souls for thumbing your noses at His word.

K: Why don't you ***gots and ***got-lovers just go start your on *** scouts.

K: God hates gays and doesn't want them in BSA.

P: I'm not about to let my sons be in any group where they are going to hang out with the gays.

GR: I am totally against changing policy. I wouldn't want my sons or grandsons to be influenced by gay friends and gay leaders. The Boy Scouts of America is a time-honored STRAIGHT organization that has been in existence for decades to develope young boys into young men, not young boys into gay men. Let them develope their own boys club not secretly infiltrate The Boy Scouts.


BH: Yes. I said it..."YOU GAYS"..they SHOULD be kicked out if they decide to tell everyone they prefer their own sex...PLUS GAYS CAN'T HAVE KIDS Why do you even care about the Boy Scouts...in case you forgot Boy Scouts is about KIDS the things YOU CAN"T HAVE!.. Why must YOU GAYS bother others?! You weren't born with it! You can't have kids! Why would there be more gays now?! Its called bad choices! don't force your lifestyle on others!! What gives you the right to do that, to push your agenda!! YOUR GAY ways are aweful!!

SERIOUSLY???


I've already told DH that DS will NOT be allowed in boy scouts, no matter how much he wants to. He won't understand that choice now and maybe it will seem unfair, but I hope when he is an adult he will recognize that their policies are not something I wanted him to be associated with. I will message/email/call over the next several days. However, even if they do change their policy, the organization is still clogged with individuals spewing the ignorant rhetoric seen above. I'm not sure I'd allow my son in anyway.

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Old 02-01-2013, 07:57 AM   #12
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Re: If you support Scouting for all

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I hope they change their policy and admit gay children. Of course, that still won't mean scouting for all, however. Even if they admit gay children, they still have no plans to change their policy to allow atheist or transgendered boys. Those children will still be excluded. But this would be a big step nonetheless, and I hope they end the ban.
I know but at least it's a baby step.

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As a non-religious scouting mom who is surrounded daily with religious scounting moms I have never witnessed any sort of mistreatment, noninclusion, talk of not allowing someone to join, outing of someone etc. We have so many different boys from all walks of life, all races, all income levels, special needs etc. and I've only seen everyone be accepted and included. I just want people to know that a few bad apples give a really great program a bad name.
I know but boy are those apples loud LOL

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I've already told DH that DS will NOT be allowed in boy scouts, no matter how much he wants to. He won't understand that choice now and maybe it will seem unfair, but I hope when he is an adult he will recognize that their policies are not something I wanted him to be associated with. I will message/email/call over the next several days. However, even if they do change their policy, the organization is still clogged with individuals spewing the ignorant rhetoric seen above. I'm not sure I'd allow my son in anyway.
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Old 02-01-2013, 08:40 AM   #13
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Re: If you support Scouting for all

From my understanding, the policy change would be to open it up to individual (troop) choice. So there will still be intolerance, most likely along regional lines (I don't have to elaborate here do I?) That is better than nothing. Hopefully by the time my 18 month old son is old enough to be a scout, this bad taste I have in my mouth will be gone.
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Old 02-01-2013, 09:06 AM   #14
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Re: If you support Scouting for all

Didn't know that....... boooo.....
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:50 AM   #15
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From what I have learned it will be up to the sponsors, in other words the churches that sponsors the troops.
So unless it's a progresive church I don't see any change happening.
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Old 02-01-2013, 02:43 PM   #16
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Re: If you support Scouting for all

Well 30 % are through non-church organizations and at least Church of Christ (40,000 scouts) supports the change
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Old 02-01-2013, 04:03 PM   #17
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Re: If you support Scouting for all

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Well 30 % are through non-church organizations and at least Church of Christ (40,000 scouts) supports the change
Well that's good to know!

For those looking for an alternative.
http://bpsa-us.org/
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:37 PM   #18
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Re: If you support Scouting for all

Also for Pagans there is spiral scouts

ETA SS is open to everyone but is a Pagan based program

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Old 02-04-2013, 07:50 AM   #19
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Re: If you support Scouting for all

bump
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:16 AM   #20
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Re: If you support Scouting for all

I think there are several reasons I was not "blessed" with boys this is one of them.
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