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Old 02-15-2013, 10:24 PM   #61
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Re: Is this punishment enough?

I wasn't surprised to see his age, I was guessing about 9 because I have an almost 9 year old who acts similarly. We haven't been in this situation, because we homeschool, but we are there with the lying!
I wouldn't have done the sentences, but I agree that the lying needs a consequence (which is what you were dealing with, not forgetting to bring the planner home) and he needs to know that forgery is not okay. And the drama...ohhhh the drama!! You're not alone.

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Old 02-15-2013, 11:38 PM   #62
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Re: Is this punishment enough?

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Originally Posted by Tris View Post
That's ok, you don't have to. I do. I couldn't imagine my parents disciplining me in that manner, they made an effort to be fair, which I appreciated then and now. If I messed up, the punishment matched the crime. 3 full punishments for 1 relatively harmless crime is harsh to me.
Kids lie. Teaching them when its ok, and when it isn't is my job. He should not have forged the initials. But why didn't OP ask her son where his workbook was? Open communication on the topic could've stopped this before it even happened. Has he ever been told he can't sign her initials? Does he know why its a big deal? All you are teaching him by punishing him for a rule yet unmade is that its unfair. He isn't going to learn that he did something wrong because you never made the rule.
For those of you talking about badges, was it explained when you were hired what the protocol was if you left your badge? Or did you just show up without it one day and then get disciplined for it. The first offense in almost everything even in grown-up land is a warning or a light consequence. There is a reason for that. I don't want to argue though, it gets me all cranky and I like DS to be my happy place
You want DS to be a happy place, so I am really sorry but, lying and forgery are not relatively harmless.
Lying can and will get you in trouble and while we all do it here and there as adults and parents myself included, you can get into a ton of trouble for it and I tell my kids this on a daily basis, lying can get you in jail for long periods of time. And the signing her initials lets call it what it really is forgery and yeah you can go to jail for that too. So I guess I don't see how these are relatively harmless actions they are real crimes that if not stopped can earn you jail time in your adult life.
I watch what is happening to this world and yes I am blunt and sometimes downright mean to my kids, and if that happened at my home and yeah it could my DS is almost 8 and my DD is almost 12 I would tell them this will earn you time in jail in an orange jumpsuit! (The jumpsuit part would be the awful part to DD because of her divas ways.) I want them to know this is serious the repercussions are bigger than what happens in our home you could get in huge trouble in the real world. My kids also know that I love them and would go to death to protect them so I am not always mean.
I also send my kids to a church school and maybe because of it I discipline more firmly, but I teach my kindergarten kids the same rules and am firm with them too often telling them do the crime do the time!
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:28 AM   #63
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Also, I think this talk of punishment is sort of beside the point. The consequence of forgetting the book is that he couldn't get it signed and lost the counters for the party. IMO, this is different from a punishment. It's incentive not to forget the book and work towards getting a system in place like what you have (and what I did when I worked as well, except I had to chant to myself as I lived alone) to keep from forgetting things.
This is what I was thinking as well. If the kid was going to get detention because of a missing signature I might have sympathy on him. But there was no punishment - it was simply a reward system to help kids remember. He forgot, so he shouldn't have gotten the reward. He chose to lie, so he should be punished.

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Old 02-16-2013, 03:22 AM   #64
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Re: Is this punishment enough?

OP, I think I would have done the same thing with my nine year old as far as the sentences and the sleepover. I find that writing sentences is very beneficial. It gives them time to cool down, think about the punishment and why it happened, keeps them out of your hair so you can cool down, and helps them with penmanship. Win win! That being said, I try not to bring other authority figures into my punishment for my child. So I would let next week be a new week for earning his character counters and not email teacher. Just my two cents.
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Old 02-16-2013, 03:30 AM   #65
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Re: Is this punishment enough?

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If I forgot my badge, I'd get a temp one, go to work, and do my job. There wouldn't be a consequence for forgetting a badge, because even one of the strictest buildings and jobs could understand that sometimes, stuff happens.
That isn't even remotely the same. Now what if you went to work, forgot to have your supervisor sign off on something that you did and you didn't feel like getting reprimanded for that so you signed it yourself. Huge no no right?
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Old 02-16-2013, 05:55 AM   #66
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Ask my kids hope bad their punishments get here of they lie. Lieing here is breaking one off the cardinal rules and gets you grounded big time. It gets loss in priveledges and also gets you solitary confinement since you can't interact with people on an honest level. And that means you may cone home and sure at the kitchen table until bedtime and go to bed. You aren't allowed to talk unless spoken to.

many mistakes or breaking of the rules can be fixed with just talking. However lieing creates a lack of open communication and is never allowed.
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:34 AM   #67
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Re: Is this punishment enough?

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3 full punishments for 1 relatively harmless crime is harsh to me.
I do not think of forging your mom's initials as a "harmless" crime. I might have come down a lot harder than OP. I think it definitely needs to be a bad enough experience to make him think twice before doing something like that again.

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Originally Posted by Tris View Post
Has he ever been told he can't sign her initials? Does he know why its a big deal? All you are teaching him by punishing him for a rule yet unmade is that its unfair. He isn't going to learn that he did something wrong because you never made the rule.
LOL. I can't imagine any scenario in which an 8 year old genuinely, innocently has no idea that it's wrong to forge Mom's initials to wiggle out of a consequence.


ETA: The one biggest thing that I see, that from childhood stood out as a warning sign with my brother, was habitual lying. He just turned 45 and is such a severe alcoholic that it's hard to even describe how bad a shape he's in. He works intermittently, homeless intermittently, been in jail a few times. (Last time serving a whopping 48 hours after a DUI with a blood alcohol level of 0.39 -- yeah, I wrote that right, 0.39.) He got in a habit of lying, spinning the truth, in childhood and continues it to this day. To the point where anything he says, you simply have no idea what relationship it has to the truth, except that there's a lie at the heart of it. The lying supports the addiction - reality is constantly turned upside down to make himself the victim. He never (really, never) takes responsibility for any of his own actions.

I do not want to allow my kids to get skilled at weaseling their way through life, so I totally agree with harsh punishments for lying & cheating. And actually I don't think the OP was even especially harsh. I might have had a fit and taken away sleepovers for a year or something, and then had to come back down.

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Old 02-16-2013, 06:40 AM   #68
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Re: Is this punishment enough?

I think you did the right thing, he will think twice about lying in the future. If my son had done that he would be grounded for at least a week, from everything except eating, sleeping and reading and his teacher would have been informed. At my house you don't lie and you don't misrepresent your mother.
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:42 AM   #69
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I would have done something similar. Forgery is no joke and we do not tolerate lying. My kids are too young for this but at 8+ I could see it. DS1 got caught in a string of lies plus throwing away food and jumping on the couch last weekend. He lost movie night and got sent to bed early. He will be 5 in April. It stopped the lying.
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:52 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tris
If I forgot my badge, I'd get a temp one, go to work, and do my job. There wouldn't be a consequence for forgetting a badge, because even one of the strictest buildings and jobs could understand that sometimes, stuff happens.
Where do you work? My mom couldn't get away with that at her job. Even the most strict places can say stuff happens but there are still consequences.

If I get pulled over for whatever reason and I forgot my driver's license at home, the cop can still ticket me for driving without a license. Even if I can give him the number and even if I actually do have one. The reality is the grown up world has consequences and is not so bending and forgiving. It is our jobs as parents to prepare them for that. Now it will be what we deem appropriate. Like if I catch my teenager with weed for the first time, I'm not gonna have him thrown in jail. There will be serious consequences though.
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