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Old 03-17-2013, 01:32 PM   #21
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Re: Bad hospital, I might just stay home

I would RUN not walk away from this OB. Throwing threats at you of c/s for refusing an unnecessary medical intervention is a MASSIVE bright red warning flag that this could end very much against what you would like. IVs are convenient for administering meds during labor or in the immediate postpartum, but like others have mentioned- these drugs can also be given through a simple shot and will be just as effective. As a doula, I've worked with several women who are afraid of needles and really wanted to refuse an IV during labor. My advice is to ask for a basic informed consent form when you are being administered to the hospital and to actually WRITE in what you do or do not want done to you during your labor or in times when you are unable to give coherent consent. You don't want an IV- say "I refuse the placement of an IV during my labor". "I refuse the use of pitocin to augment my labor without my consent or without true informed consent of the reason this is indicated" " I refuse a cesarean section if I faint due to my fear of needles, and all indications or reasons of a cesarean section must be discussed with my partner if I am unable to coherently give consent". Then you sign that consent form and they HAVE to oblige to your wishes. Also just ask for an "Against Medical Advice" form and write in your wishes on that form as well. This is your form of communication and a sign to whomever would like to challenge your wishes against "hospital policy" that you mean business and that you're not going to take the bullying and threats.

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Old 03-17-2013, 01:44 PM   #22
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Re: Bad hospital, I might just stay home

I don't think you need to make that big of a scene about it. Just labor at home for as long as possible and when you get in the room refuse the iv. Be prepared to hear about how it could result in you or your baby dying. Stay firm in saying "No" and have your DH back you up. You're not a child they can't hold you down and stick you and, as far as I know, they can't refuse to admit you if you're in active labor.
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Old 03-17-2013, 03:07 PM   #23
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Re: Bad hospital, I might just stay home

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Originally Posted by bananaclip View Post
My pregnancy has been uncomplicated since the placental separation at 7.5 weeks that healed quickly. (I actually feel good now!) I was not given a birth center option at Kaiser, I don't know that Kaiser has birth centers in SoCal? And the OB said all Kaiser hospitals have the same policy, she did not mention I could choose a BC. Sadly, we cannot transfer out of Kasier into a different insurance, and I am 36.5 weeks now. My plan, oh this is bad, is to arrive at the hospital, check in, then proceed to labor loudly in the lobby upsetting everyone. I plan to refuse to enter the system until I get what I want. If they try to bring me in I will state "I cannot enter L & D because IVs are mandatory and IVs make me pass out." I am having my doctor sign a statement stating she did tell me IVs are mandatory and that she is aware that I have a history of passing out looking at the IV connection in my body. Also she will have to confirm she stated that if I do pass out I will be C-Sectioned." I will labor in the lobby until the staff relents and allows me to enter L&D IV free. I figure half an hour and I will be in. Can you imagine, me screaming in the lobby, ha ha ha. Or, what will they do, make me go outside? Fine, I'll go into the valet area and labor there. People will call the police, the staff will have to let me into L&D. The OB actually said, "The hospital won't admit you without an IV."
I transferred to Kaiser in January. The previous HMO OB office, the Dr. was recommended by a long time doula in the area ($1,600 for the doula service, I cannot afford that) was/is a JOKE. That is a long horror story I cannot write. It started bad. The old HM OB refused to see me for 11 days after my emergency bleed. The ER Dr. said, "rest for now but go see your OB asap for advice. This is not my specialty." Ok, that is reasonable advice, if you don't know you don't know. But for the OB to keep me waiting 11 days, and without ANY phone consultation is practically criminal. I was hysterical on the phone but the receptionist was a psychopath unmoved by my distress. We had just moved from 60 miles away, so at 7.5 weeks I had yet to see the new recommended OB. Since she hadn't seen me yet, she refused to talk to me on the phone. Unbelievable. So to get away from the locked in HMO OB I picked I had to change my whole insurance plan to Kaiser. If we were rich, I would have chosen the PPO, but the co-pays would have broken the bank.

I laugh at the original OB now, the stuff she did was funny. My husband started coming to the appointments and he was amazed, this women, though nice, seemed so very disorganized. My husband cut her off at one point and said, "You read us those labs last time." The other great one-liner, she walks in and looks at my chart and says, "have you seen the perinatalogist yet?" I say in an artificial polite tone, "No I haven't. I haven't because you did not refer me to a perinatologist. Is there a reason I should see one?" She says, "No, never mind." LOL! At this point I am not concerned because I have decided she is a moron and would be transferring to Kaiser. But she was sooo nice, and so cute, and always said "my dear". Idiot women.

....seriously.... you're a little extreme. Ever heard of making a mountain out of a mole hill?
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Old 03-17-2013, 04:10 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bananaclip
I got some bad news today. I have a fear of IVs and well medical equipment in general. I have passed out twice in my life, both due to just looking at my own IVs. I almost passed out visiting a friend in the hospital, she had a lot of tubes going on. I have never passed out otherwise.

I asked if I could have no medical intervention, no IV or Heplock, until or if they are needed and I explained my irrational fear. Doctor said no. THEN the doctor said, "And if you do pass out you will probably be C-sectioned". I said, "This is crazy, I am telling you I could pass out, probably will if you give me an IV, as it happened the other two times I was IVed, and you are telling me tough luck and then you say, Oh by the way you'll be c-sectioned if you pass out!" She was unapologetic about the policy.

I have Kaiser, so I have no idea who will be there when I deliver.

I am thinking of just not going/getting a hotel nearby and going at the last minute. If I know it is very likely I will pass out due to hours spent looking at and feeling the heplock and thus be sectioned, so why risk a C-section.

Does anyone know a lawyer in Southern CA who deals with medical ...issues? I have to do something. It seems crazy the hospital would knowingly do something to me that will cause me distress and which would cause them to automatically C-section me, even if the baby was fine. I need a lawyer. This is madness. I even called the hospital and they said, "tough ****". I was so happy and unafraid to give birth, now I am terrified and sad
Maybe have a home birth. You have the right to refuse any medical intervention. I work in a hospital, and we have people refuse things all the time. Doctors get frustrated by this because, why are you in the hospital, if you refuse to let them care for you. You don't have to be there, and if you don't agree with the care they provide you, either find someone else, or do it yourself.

I seriously doubt that the person you spoke with at the hospital said, "tough ****.". If they actually did say those words, I would have asked to speak to the Director of Women's Services and complained about the unprofessional manner in which you were spoken to. You do have options, but trying to force your way into the hospital by causing a scene will not get you a calm birthing experience. It will get you a longer stay due to needing to see the staff psychiatrist and it will get you pissed off doctors and RNs, which I can tell you, you do not want.
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Old 03-17-2013, 04:38 PM   #25
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Re: Bad hospital, I might just stay home

Rather than antagonizing them, I think you should look for a student doula or enlist a close friend/family member who will be your birth advocate for no fee. This person should be very clear on your needs and should field all contact with the hospital staff. The blanket phrase they should use is "She is in active labor right now. She does not want IVs. Please keep them out of sight." Have the person devoted to that single task - politely but firmly refusing the IV. If they can also watch the surroundings and circumvent any accidental IV encounters, that's a good plan, too. You will be passing through halls and seeing other laboring women, they can't hide every IV in the hospital.

If there is a NEED for an IV, could you have your birth partner blindfold you? I know it's not ideal, but if it keeps you from passing out...
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:18 AM   #26
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Re: Bad hospital, I might just stay home

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Originally Posted by Leiiki View Post
Rather than antagonizing them, I think you should look for a student doula or enlist a close friend/family member who will be your birth advocate for no fee. This person should be very clear on your needs and should field all contact with the hospital staff. The blanket phrase they should use is "She is in active labor right now. She does not want IVs. Please keep them out of sight." Have the person devoted to that single task - politely but firmly refusing the IV. If they can also watch the surroundings and circumvent any accidental IV encounters, that's a good plan, too. You will be passing through halls and seeing other laboring women, they can't hide every IV in the hospital.

If there is a NEED for an IV, could you have your birth partner blindfold you? I know it's not ideal, but if it keeps you from passing out...
If you do decide to enlist in this type of advocate, please do not use the term "doula" It gives so many of us a really bad name because we are not meant to be speaking on behalf of the mother. That's the wonderful thing about "Birth Plans" and having assertive partners
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:55 AM   #27
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Re: Bad hospital, I might just stay home

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leiiki View Post
Rather than antagonizing them, I think you should look for a student doula or enlist a close friend/family member who will be your birth advocate for no fee. This person should be very clear on your needs and should field all contact with the hospital staff. The blanket phrase they should use is "She is in active labor right now. She does not want IVs. Please keep them out of sight." Have the person devoted to that single task - politely but firmly refusing the IV. If they can also watch the surroundings and circumvent any accidental IV encounters, that's a good plan, too. You will be passing through halls and seeing other laboring women, they can't hide every IV in the hospital.

If there is a NEED for an IV, could you have your birth partner blindfold you? I know it's not ideal, but if it keeps you from passing out...
Be aware that legally a "doula" or other support person cannot make your medical decisions for you or tell the medical staff what treatments you will or will not accept unless they are the holder of your health care Power of Attorney. This is a huge issue with doulas. They are not your POA. They are their to support the mother (and her partner) and to assist them through the process.

It is pretty common for a hospital to have a policy to place an IV in every admitted patient. The hospital's first priority is safety. Like it or not, IV access is a safety measure. Access in an emergency is a top priority and hospitals know this. They know that if they don't have access and an emergecy happens, they could wind up paying huge settlements. Murphy's Law and any nurse will tell you that it's the patient without IV access whose BP skyrockets or who needs an emergency procedure. Certainly, you have the right to refuse treatments, but this is likely a hospital rather than physician policy. As far as c-sectioning if you pass out -- if you truly pass out, it can affect your heart rate and your oxygen levels. If it is affecting you, it is likely having an even greater effect on your unborn child who could easily wind up in serious distress as a result.

Walking into the hospital with an adversarial attitude is not going to get you an experience that you will be happy with. You will get a better response by acting like a reasonable adult than throwing a tantrum in the lobby. The doctors and nurses aren't going to sign papers that they won't place an iv. I am not quite sure I understand your reasoning behind wanting your OB to sign a paper about the IV policy.

If it comes down to it, have your SO or a doula distract you and ask that the nurse wrap the site with kerlix so you do not see the site
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:41 AM   #28
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Can they not wrap you hand up so you can't actually see it in your hand? Just have the tube taped to the back of your arm so you can't see it either?

I don't understand why you would throw such a fit? That seems selfish on your part...there are actually people there who want medical help...and you will be distracting the medical team of their care.

Go in last min after you have labored at home? I don't know? I just don't think your attitude about it would help you....I think it would actually really hurt you.... and you will have a birth that you do not want.

Can they sedate a woman in labor? That would be my concern.... getting out of hand isn't the answer. Just decline it....
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:02 AM   #29
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Re: Bad hospital, I might just stay home

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Originally Posted by z2akids View Post
Be aware that legally a "doula" or other support person cannot make your medical decisions for you or tell the medical staff what treatments you will or will not accept unless they are the holder of your health care Power of Attorney. This is a huge issue with doulas. They are not your POA. They are their to support the mother (and her partner) and to assist them through the process.

It is pretty common for a hospital to have a policy to place an IV in every admitted patient. The hospital's first priority is safety. Like it or not, IV access is a safety measure. Access in an emergency is a top priority and hospitals know this. They know that if they don't have access and an emergecy happens, they could wind up paying huge settlements. Murphy's Law and any nurse will tell you that it's the patient without IV access whose BP skyrockets or who needs an emergency procedure. Certainly, you have the right to refuse treatments, but this is likely a hospital rather than physician policy. As far as c-sectioning if you pass out -- if you truly pass out, it can affect your heart rate and your oxygen levels. If it is affecting you, it is likely having an even greater effect on your unborn child who could easily wind up in serious distress as a result.

Walking into the hospital with an adversarial attitude is not going to get you an experience that you will be happy with. You will get a better response by acting like a reasonable adult than throwing a tantrum in the lobby. The doctors and nurses aren't going to sign papers that they won't place an iv. I am not quite sure I understand your reasoning behind wanting your OB to sign a paper about the IV policy.

If it comes down to it, have your SO or a doula distract you and ask that the nurse wrap the site with kerlix so you do not see the site
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:11 AM   #30
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Re: Bad hospital, I might just stay home

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Originally Posted by bananaclip View Post
My pregnancy has been uncomplicated since the placental separation at 7.5 weeks that healed quickly. (I actually feel good now!) I was not given a birth center option at Kaiser, I don't know that Kaiser has birth centers in SoCal? And the OB said all Kaiser hospitals have the same policy, she did not mention I could choose a BC. Sadly, we cannot transfer out of Kasier into a different insurance, and I am 36.5 weeks now. My plan, oh this is bad, is to arrive at the hospital, check in, then proceed to labor loudly in the lobby upsetting everyone. I plan to refuse to enter the system until I get what I want. If they try to bring me in I will state "I cannot enter L & D because IVs are mandatory and IVs make me pass out." I am having my doctor sign a statement stating she did tell me IVs are mandatory and that she is aware that I have a history of passing out looking at the IV connection in my body. Also she will have to confirm she stated that if I do pass out I will be C-Sectioned." I will labor in the lobby until the staff relents and allows me to enter L&D IV free. I figure half an hour and I will be in. Can you imagine, me screaming in the lobby, ha ha ha. Or, what will they do, make me go outside? Fine, I'll go into the valet area and labor there. People will call the police, the staff will have to let me into L&D. The OB actually said, "The hospital won't admit you without an IV."
I transferred to Kaiser in January. The previous HMO OB office, the Dr. was recommended by a long time doula in the area ($1,600 for the doula service, I cannot afford that) was/is a JOKE. That is a long horror story I cannot write. It started bad. The old HM OB refused to see me for 11 days after my emergency bleed. The ER Dr. said, "rest for now but go see your OB asap for advice. This is not my specialty." Ok, that is reasonable advice, if you don't know you don't know. But for the OB to keep me waiting 11 days, and without ANY phone consultation is practically criminal. I was hysterical on the phone but the receptionist was a psychopath unmoved by my distress. We had just moved from 60 miles away, so at 7.5 weeks I had yet to see the new recommended OB. Since she hadn't seen me yet, she refused to talk to me on the phone. Unbelievable. So to get away from the locked in HMO OB I picked I had to change my whole insurance plan to Kaiser. If we were rich, I would have chosen the PPO, but the co-pays would have broken the bank.

I laugh at the original OB now, the stuff she did was funny. My husband started coming to the appointments and he was amazed, this women, though nice, seemed so very disorganized. My husband cut her off at one point and said, "You read us those labs last time." The other great one-liner, she walks in and looks at my chart and says, "have you seen the perinatalogist yet?" I say in an artificial polite tone, "No I haven't. I haven't because you did not refer me to a perinatologist. Is there a reason I should see one?" She says, "No, never mind." LOL! At this point I am not concerned because I have decided she is a moron and would be transferring to Kaiser. But she was sooo nice, and so cute, and always said "my dear". Idiot women.

Wow!!! Your plan will do nothing but place a large section of your L&D ward (including you & your baby) in danger. Throwing a tantrum that distracts everyone within ear shot is immature & selfish. If I was a patient at the same time as you I would honestly consider a civil suit against you - you are premeditating using distracting behavior in a hospital!
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