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Old 05-25-2013, 09:05 PM   #361
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Does the fact that there are diverse life circumstances mean that someone in a different socioeconomic bracket than you doesn't even deserve consideration for their contribution to a discussion? Sure, she chose a word that came off as offensive, but the idea behind the word, that stay at home parents should have a gateway into the workforce, is entirely reasonable and rational.

I'm not a millionaire, but I still read about their ideas on money, and I listen when they have advice. Not because I have a portfolio that rivals theirs or a disposable income that is even close to what they have. I listen to them, the exact same way I listen to a couponing mom, because they have different life experience, and I guarantee I can learn something valuable. And I can take what they do and use it on a scale that does mesh with my life.

And my favorite joke is: What do you call a fish without an eye? Fsh. Cracks me up.

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Old 05-25-2013, 09:12 PM   #362
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Originally Posted by soonerfan
Does the fact that there are diverse life circumstances mean that someone in a different socioeconomic bracket than you doesn't even deserve consideration for their contribution to a discussion? Sure, she chose a word that came off as offensive, but the idea behind the word, that stay at home parents should have a gateway into the workforce, is entirely reasonable and rational.

I'm not a millionaire, but I still read about their ideas on money, and I listen when they have advice. Not because I have a portfolio that rivals theirs or a disposable income that is even close to what they have. I listen to them, the exact same way I listen to a couponing mom, because they have different life experience, and I guarantee I can learn something valuable. And I can take what they do and use it on a scale that does mesh with my life.

And my favorite joke is: What do you call a fish without an eye? Fsh. Cracks me up.
It is not just the one poorly chosen word. It is the whole general attitude. That women can just magically pick themselves up, go to school, get a great job while caring for small children. For some that is an option, but for many it is not. At least not at THIS point.
She has a good point. It is a great idea to be able to take care of yourselves if the need arises. But making that happen is just not possible for some.
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Old 05-25-2013, 09:12 PM   #363
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Re: Second Wives Club

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Originally Posted by soonerfan View Post
Does the fact that there are diverse life circumstances mean that someone in a different socioeconomic bracket than you doesn't even deserve consideration for their contribution to a discussion? Sure, she chose a word that came off as offensive, but the idea behind the word, that stay at home parents should have a gateway into the workforce, is entirely reasonable and rational.

I'm not a millionaire, but I still read about their ideas on money, and I listen when they have advice. Not because I have a portfolio that rivals theirs or a disposable income that is even close to what they have. I listen to them, the exact same way I listen to a couponing mom, because they have different life experience, and I guarantee I can learn something valuable. And I can take what they do and use it on a scale that does mesh with my life.

And my favorite joke is: What do you call a fish without an eye? Fsh. Cracks me up.

Wow, everytime you say this it makes me

I don't understand why you don't get this? She is in her own little bubble of "I can do it so everyone can do it"....well that's just not true. I know of people that have serious diddly squat left at the end of a months budget. No time for school, no money for childcare etc. At some point they will.....but not right now.

You are totally contradicting yourself. "We" see the diversity in how it differs from person to person, from rich to poor. She does not.....or not in her comments of "go get an education"......and "can't is a self fulfilling prophecy" . Again....I'm not even talking about myself here as I can. But I'm thinking of all the other people I know of that seriously just can't.



I also read about those better off then me and try to absorb as much as that great information as I can.


Once again.....there was a nice way to say it. Her ENTIRE post came off as offensive. I'm actually offended for other people, not even myself as I know I can get a job easily if needed.
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Old 05-25-2013, 09:12 PM   #364
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Re: Second Wives Club

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Originally Posted by soonerfan View Post
Does the fact that there are diverse life circumstances mean that someone in a different socioeconomic bracket than you doesn't even deserve consideration for their contribution to a discussion? Sure, she chose a word that came off as offensive, but the idea behind the word, that stay at home parents should have a gateway into the workforce, is entirely reasonable and rational.

I'm not a millionaire, but I still read about their ideas on money, and I listen when they have advice. Not because I have a portfolio that rivals theirs or a disposable income that is even close to what they have. I listen to them, the exact same way I listen to a couponing mom, because they have different life experience, and I guarantee I can learn something valuable. And I can take what they do and use it on a scale that does mesh with my life.

And my favorite joke is: What do you call a fish without an eye? Fsh. Cracks me up.
Her assumptions, comments, and judgement do not allow for other situations or economic means. In her opinion if something was possible for her and her rich aquaintances it is possible for everyone. This is not a reasonable stance to take on things. I cannot afford to pay to go to work. I do not do lunch with my kids or husband let alone with old coworkers because of expense. It isn't reasonable to expect what you can do to be the same as others can do when they are not living your life.

Also when she insulted others why does she or anyone expect anyone to respect her opinion. It is obvious she does not respect others and their opinions or life experiences.
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Old 05-25-2013, 09:23 PM   #365
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Re: Second Wives Club

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I agree.....but to be honest for me the clue to this "blind to the real world" came when she spoke of not using her law degree. Any people I know who have gone to law or med school are usually from a well off family as it is. A few people dig through it themselves and deal with all the loans themselves. But in general those from a lower income background are not putting their law degree aside as they have fought tooth and nail to get it.

I might be in the situation to be able to go to school again and work enough for daycare costs. But, I'm not nave enough to know that I'm fortunate and that many many people are not able to do this.
I went back and reread. I suppose my way of posting may have led you to believe I am or was an attonrey. I am not and never have been. I was the litigation paralegal to the lit chair at a large international law firm. In contemplated law schools and even applied/got in, but chose a different path after college. But, I worked 50-80 hours a week in the firm and did not want to return to that commitment out of the home with small children.

I won't go into mu family's financial circumstances because they are not anyone's business. Suffice it to say that both before I was married and after I worked very hard to pay for my education. Continuing it has always been a priority in my life.

Anyway, It isn't important. I don't see that my story about going back to school and changing careers with three small children is where I am coming from. It was not easy, but it was important to me and to my family and we worked toward it.

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Originally Posted by soonerfan View Post
Does the fact that there are diverse life circumstances mean that someone in a different socioeconomic bracket than you doesn't even deserve consideration for their contribution to a discussion? Sure, she chose a word that came off as offensive, but the idea behind the word, that stay at home parents should have a gateway into the workforce, is entirely reasonable and rational.

I'm not a millionaire, but I still read about their ideas on money, and I listen when they have advice. Not because I have a portfolio that rivals theirs or a disposable income that is even close to what they have. I listen to them, the exact same way I listen to a couponing mom, because they have different life experience, and I guarantee I can learn something valuable. And I can take what they do and use it on a scale that does mesh with my life.

And my favorite joke is: What do you call a fish without an eye? Fsh. Cracks me up.
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Old 05-25-2013, 09:29 PM   #366
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Re: Second Wives Club

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Originally Posted by drunkenmonkeysmommy1 View Post
It is not just the one poorly chosen word. It is the whole general attitude. That women can just magically pick themselves up, go to school, get a great job while caring for small children. For some that is an option, but for many it is not. At least not at THIS point.
She has a good point. It is a great idea to be able to take care of yourselves if the need arises. But making that happen is just not possible for some.
It isn't magic. It takes a heck of a lot of work and some sacrifices. Not everyone is willing to contemplate those sacrifices. But, simply dismissing it as not an option means it won't.

Perhaps I am too much of an optimist. I refuse to believe that a significant number of women simply do not have the ability to take financial care of themselves. What s sad reflection on women if this is true.
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Old 05-25-2013, 09:32 PM   #367
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Re: Second Wives Club

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I don't think having the ability to return to or join the workforce in a job that can support you/kids negates the necessity for alimony in some cases. I think it is reasonable in cases where one sacrificed by staying home or working a lesser paying job to help the other through school or climb the career ladder.

However, I believe in nearly all situations, alimony should just be paid for a transitional period (and this is how courts tend to see it also). I don't believe any spouse owes the other one the promise of the same lifestyle as today for life.

I can't speak for everyone who supports the idea of maintaining some sort of pathway into the working world during periods of being home with kids, but for myself, it is a prudent idea unto itself, regardless of alimony or lack thereof.
This sums it up for me too.
For me, there is security in knowing I can continue to provide for my kids without fighting an insurance company for payout, fighting in court for fair child support/alimony payments, or trying to make it solely on unemployment. All of those are fair options to consider as part of a contingency plan, but not enough for me personally to feel comfortable.

I can add that my feelings on this are strong mostly because of watching my mother's lifestyle. She boyfriend hopped because she was reliant on a man to help make the rent payment before she could work (I have a young sister with CP) and when her salary was minimum wage. I vowed to never have to make decisions for myself or my kids based on another person's plans like she did. DH and I currently have a rock solid relationship. Although his grandma's sister has a rock solid relationship as well, and her husband went through gambling addiction and lost their life savings plus some, and ended up in jail for a year. Luckily they were in their 60s with grown children and grandchildren, but she did have to work during that time to support herself and begin paying his debts.

Anyways. For me personally I have a need for the back up plans. I've been a sahm for 2 years now and have really enjoyed it. I was a wohm for 2 years and will be again in the fall. I certainly don't feel judgy towards either role. I feel it's equally important for a woman in either role to put some consideration into supporting the family and/or herself if the time came, whether that be working, savings, insurance, family, etc.
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Old 05-25-2013, 09:37 PM   #368
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It was not easy, but it was important to me and to my family and we worked toward it.
I kind of think that if you thought of other families' choices being made with this exact same mindset, then maybe a lot of this discussion wouldn't have gone where it did. I get that many people don't understand why I wouldn't want to be able to provide for my kids on my own by myself, but to at least respect that my husband and I have put some thought into the whole thing, weighed the pros and cons, decided what we are capable of, what values we want for our kids...I think that would go a long way toward mitigating some of the mommy wars.
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Old 05-25-2013, 09:41 PM   #369
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It isn't magic. It takes a heck of a lot of work and some sacrifices. Not everyone is willing to contemplate those sacrifices. But, simply dismissing it as not an option means it won't.

Perhaps I am too much of an optimist. I refuse to believe that a significant number of women simply do not have the ability to take financial care of themselves. What s sad reflection on women if this is true.
That right there is what I am talking about. It is not always that one is not willing to contemplate those sacrifices. If someone was to come along and pay for my school and ensure that my kids had the best of care while I took classes, i would contemplate it.
But the money IS.NOT.THERE. Child care in general is expensive, and childcare for a child with special needs is even worse. Once again, the money IS.NOT.THERE.
I do not qualify for grants, low income child care, etc, because my husband makes too much money. They do not take into account that he is basically paying for two households 8 months out of the year. Nor do they care about medical an credit debt we have.
It.just.is.not.as cut and dry as you think it is for most.
Do I wish I had finished school and had gotten a my foot wet in a career before I had a baby? You BET. But it did not work that way. Supposedly It was very unlikely I would ever get pregnant,but we still used birth control. Life had other plans. I got pregnant a whole 3 weeks after we got married.
I WILL be able to provide for myself at some point. But if he left me right now, I would be financially crushed. No amount of digging deeper and believing in myself is going to change that..... Unless you want to pay for school
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Old 05-25-2013, 09:41 PM   #370
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Re: Second Wives Club

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Here's the thing; staying home is a choice. A luxury. Choosing to stay home with not even a second thought as to what would happen if you got divorced/DH got laid off/you got divorced/DH died/DH got injured is risky and foolish. First of all, nobody ever plans to get divorced, and happy marriages never end in divorce. Even in the most stable of relationships, no marriage has a 0% chance of divorce.

There are no guarantees in life, and maintaing employability is incredibly important, even if it's just volunteering one or two days a month or the occasional lunch with old work friends. Even the happiest marriage isn't immune from injuries or job loss. The thought of being 100% unemployable and at the mercy of DP's alimony is the worst thought in the entire world. We may make decisions as a couple, yes, but ultimately we bear the brunt of responsibility for our own decisions. If he takes a promotion, even if we both agreed it was best, and the new position is hell on earth, he's the one that ultimately is responsible for it. Ultimately, even if he supports me staying home and agrees that it's best, I am responsible for my employability because it's my name at the top of the resume.

I'm in favor of alimony in certain situations. Full child support while the mom gets a degree or job training if she has no higher education, support for older women who have nothing in retirement and absolutely in abuse situations (therapy, job training, etc). The rest of the time though, not so much. I think the laws need to progress from the 40's and 50's when women literally couldn't work due to lack of daycare and available jobs. Ultimately though, I don't think I should be paid more than my perfectly adequate salary because my husband and I no longer love each other and no longer want to be married.
FFS! Seriously? I'm on page 8 and already so pissed...........not sure what the next 30 pages holds for me.
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