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Old 05-26-2013, 04:53 PM   #501
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Re: Second Wives Club

Yeah, there are certainly varying degrees of "can't." Some truly cannot afford to stay home. Some say they can't but could if they changed their lifestyle. Some can't mentally because they just don't want to stay home and prefer to work.

An old coworker of mine would have loved to stay home, but admitted to me that it was mostly because they'd have to cut back on the stuff they had and lifestyle they had. Her husband had a very good job and could have supported them. They were all used to living in a big house and having all sorts of fun toys (boats, 4-wheelers, nice vehicles, nice vacations, etc.) and they didn't want their family to give that up. Just different priorities, I suppose. I think it was more her husband than her, though.

I have friends that have to work, and I have friends that want to. Everyone has different priorities and wants and needs and jobs and situations and families. I wish more of them were able to make their choices based on what they truly wanted, rather than needs or pressure from spouses.

I'm thankful that I have the choice, either way. For me, I'm willing to buy a used car and not have the best of the best in order to make this work. I'd go get a job if I had to. We are comfortable and have many nice things, but we're certainly not rich. I think my husband struggles with this more than I do. Sometimes I think he wishes I had a career, but he also really really doesn't want anyone else with our kids, haha. It's that whole can't have your cake and eat it too idea.

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Old 05-26-2013, 05:08 PM   #502
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Originally Posted by mjg2043

And the poster I was responded to listed: cooking, cleaning, gardening, paying bills, shopping...I work and also do those things. I also dont need anyone to diaper change my 5 and 8 year old.

However I work for two big reasons. 1. I like it. I have multiple degrees and enjoy my field. 2. I want to send my kids to private school and be able to pay for whatever extra activities they want to do. My salary allows $700 a month in tuition because I value that for their education. It covers thousands in lessons and sports because it matters to us as a family. Without all this I could stay home, but I would not be happy with me, their education, or their lack of activities.

Are these wants over needs? Maybe. But I am happy to make it happen.
See and I stay at home to educate my children . I would not be happy with their education other wise
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Old 05-26-2013, 05:14 PM   #503
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Re: Second Wives Club

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I see. Snark towards a higher income or comments about the misplaced priorities of working moms are fine. Rudeness towards the opinion that every parent should be able to support offspring--totally acceptable. " Sadness" that someone thinks financial stability is as important as raising babies--cool.

Refusing to accept "I can't" when the real answer is "I won't" or "I don't want to." Well, that's rude.
Especially if you offer ways to change can't to can.

I am a freaking amazing teacher, and that isn't my ego talking. I get incredible results and my kids love me. The main reason? I care about them being able to make their own choices, and I will not accept "can't." I push them and make them think.

When I post here, I do the same. And you know what? Some of the very same people who think my advice is harsh or direct end up thanking me later when that advice helps them or proves to be right. Am I always right? Not at all.

Point taken though. I'll save my advice for someone else.
I don't think people are saying that snarking at WOHM's or questioning their priorities is okay. People's priorities are their own, and we don't get to set them for other people, much as we might like to. It's not about being a WOHM or being in the wrong thread, it's more about how things are said and the assumptions that are made.
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Old 05-26-2013, 05:16 PM   #504
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I got the same response. We are on the wrong side of this discussion I guess.
Oh please. You blamed babies and death of a husband on a wife, and she's picking on someone and won't let her bull**** go. Add the adjunct insult and those are the only posts I can think of that caused issue. Plenty of people agree with both sides of all topics to an extent. The difference is how you present it. Ridiculously blaming someone for things that she could not have single handedly caused is going to get comment. Someone going after another person and feeling it is their duty to push an issue the other person has no interest in, and then getting pissy because their advice isn't taken is going to get comment. Acting as if any mother isn't an integral part of a family is going to get comment.

Funny how numerous people agreed with keeping options open, yet weren't made the subject of debate. Maybe that's because they weren't offensive or ridiculous. But no, that would be too logical. It's totally that you're on the wrong side and the entire thread is against you in a paranoid conspiracy where we only want agreement! Kay.

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Old 05-26-2013, 05:19 PM   #505
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Re: Second Wives Club

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I've encountered acquaintances on facebook who have said things like, "I wish I was rich so I could stay home and just play with my kid(s) all day." Because it's so easy, and everyone who does it is rich. I think things like that (which I've heard multiple times) are sometimes just said because someone is sick of working or miss their kids or whatever. But sometimes it does come off in a snarky way. I also know a few people that "can't" stay home but most likely could if they cut back on some things and lived a bit more modestly.

That said, I know some WOHMs that have felt judged by SAHMs, or by other people. My old coworker was almost in tears one day when someone told another woman (who had quit there a few years prior to stay home with their kids) how nice it was that she was staying home "instead of having someone else raise your kids."

The mommy wars are ugly. No matter what you do, someone will think you are wrong. That's why I truly just do my best to just remember to focus on myself and my family, but people can be very rude or obnoxious or hurtful (whether they intend to or not).
This is so true. I know I personally get so tired of people who go "I wish I could be a SAHM" or "Must be nice to just stay home with the kids" or the like. Well, for most SAHM's it's actually not a real choice--for most two parent households it's not a real choice. If someone's salary doesn't justify child care costs, someone stays home with the kids. There are really not that many women who can truly make a free decision about this. I know some and most of them realize they are in the fortunate minority.

It is also not kosher to comment on a WOHM's amount of time spent with kids. Quality > quantity and again, people do what works for their families. It's not my place to decide for them. Quality child care is available in most areas and if kids are happy and healthy that's what matters. Motherhood is wonderful but it need not be the only thing in someone's life, if that's not what they desire.

I also know some moms who want to stay home and "can't" -- and it sure looks to me like they could if they cut some extraneous spending out--but it's not my business, nor should it be. Their priorities are theirs and it works for their family, I say yay! Good job finding what works.
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Old 05-26-2013, 05:21 PM   #506
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Re: Second Wives Club

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Acting as if any mother isn't an integral part of a family is going to get comment.
Bam. There it is.
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Old 05-26-2013, 05:31 PM   #507
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This is exactly right. Some people legitimately "can't" and others just dont want to SAH badly enough to make sacrifices. Or they, like me, just don't want to stay home, period. Could I stay home if I wanted to? Sure. It wouldn't even mean any change to our lifestyle. I just flat out don't want to stay home. I like working. I love my kids. But I can't be around them all day, every day. I would go bonkers. I wish I enjoyed staying home. Life would be less stressful and I love the idea of days spent going to the park, reading, etc. But the reality is just too noisy,messy, and not
Appealing to me.

Sometimes I think women often say "I wish I could stay home" to SAHMs because they think they will be judged for saying "I don't really want to stay home that badly."
This I can, respect. I honestly don't want to work. my passion is being molly homemaker. do I miss going to work and having adult conversation ? I sure do but not enough to go back to work and back to the life of stress and unhappiness I had as a wohm
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Old 05-26-2013, 05:34 PM   #508
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Re: Second Wives Club

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And the poster I was responded to listed: cooking, cleaning, gardening, paying bills, shopping...I work and also do those things. I also dont need anyone to diaper change my 5 and 8 year old.

However I work for two big reasons. 1. I like it. I have multiple degrees and enjoy my field. 2. I want to send my kids to private school and be able to pay for whatever extra activities they want to do. My salary allows $700 a month in tuition because I value that for their education. It covers thousands in lessons and sports because it matters to us as a family. Without all this I could stay home, but I would not be happy with me, their education, or their lack of activities.

Are these wants over needs? Maybe. But I am happy to make it happen.
Okay, I see (definitely) that WOHM's still do a lot of house work. But to be fair if you/kids are gone 8 hours a day, there isn't quite the amount of mess generated. They may make plenty in the evening but not during the day, no one is messing or cleaning during the day because you aren't there. And you are right, there is a big difference. 5 and 8 year olds don't require the supervision or personal care tasks that infants and toddlers do.. and if they do make a mess they can clean most of it themselves When my kids are 5 and 8 (well actually they will be 5 and 11, but whatever) I intend to not be home while they are in school. My SIL's kids are 9 and 12 and she is still SAH--it's not for me, but if she wants to, her call.

And here is another place where situations are just different, not one over the other--we are incredibly fortunate to live in a place where there are excellent public schools. If that were not the case, I would likely feel differently on it. We also have a very affordable youth soccer league and numerous recreational programs that have minimal costs. Also, we only have one kid doing that stuff right now and that helps, heh.

I just don't think it is as simple as A is better than B because C. There are too many variables to say.
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Old 05-26-2013, 05:53 PM   #509
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Re: Second Wives Club

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Yep. I have, my views. My view for me is that I didn't have babies, to put them in day care at six-twelve weeks of age. That's me. I am an advocate for our country finding a way to allow at.least one parent stay home for the first year of a childs life . That's my personal opinion but what is good for me may not good for another and I'm old enough to understand that and rejoice in their successes.
But why is it the government's responsibility to find a way for parents to stay home? If I choose to have a child (and yes, it is absolutely a choice to be sexually active and take that risk, unless I get raped), then it is my job to figure out how to care for him. It isn't my employer's job, or my government's. I can make the budget cuts to stay at home full time, or part time, or choose to work full time afterwards. All are valid choices. But if staying home is extremely important to me, then I need to choose to wait to get pregnant until *I* can afford to.

Which I did.

I am sure I will get flamed for this, but I personally appreciate living in a country that does not pay for maternity leave or require businesses to provide it. My taxes are lower and my husband's take home pay are higher because of that.
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Old 05-26-2013, 05:58 PM   #510
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When I tell a SAHM that I wish I could stay home, it's because I genuinely mean it. I've been on both sides of the coin and even if I'm only working part time, I still have a difficult time on the hours I am away. BUT I try to think about how much DH would rather be home with the baby instead of at work and be empathetic to his feelings. I work on DH's two days off so DS is not in daycare and I work for our "extras" like our cushion for the month and so DD1+2 can go to gymnastics. I'm sure there are things we could cut out, but we really aren't very frivolous to begin with and if I keep it in perspective, I'm only working two days. But I hope when I mention that I wish I could stay home with my kids to another stay at home mom, they don't take it as a dig and just hear a mom who really misses her baby when she's away.
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