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Old 07-01-2013, 12:41 PM   #11
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Re: GBS

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Originally Posted by ~Cricket~ View Post
OK here's the link. It's the clinical guidelines for midwives in Ontario. Some of the research is kind of heavy to get through, but if you have a minute or two to sit and wade through it, it's not too difficult to understand.
http://www.aom.on.ca/files/Health_Ca..._2012FINAL.pdf
I've only got a minute right now, but if you'd like, I can go through and copy and paste some of the pertinent sections to this thread later on.

If you don't mind and have time I would love it. I may look into declining the test as well. I'm serious about how awful the abx were the last time around!

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Old 07-01-2013, 12:45 PM   #12
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Re: GBS

I agree that the risk is very low. Even though I tested + last time, I declined Abx (birthed at a birth center) and did a hibiclens wash during labor instead, and agreed to watch baby for any abnormal symptoms for a few days after birth. I'll have the same choice this time (if I test + again), and will make the same choice to avoid Abx.
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Old 07-01-2013, 07:58 PM   #13
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Re: GBS

Not trying to hijack...I have tested GBS positive with all 3 of my babies, and I received antibiotics with all of them. With baby #2 I didn't have the antibiotics long enough before delivery, and my son developed a lung infection and was in the NICU for 16 days. He was very, very sick. Because of that experience, I don't know that I would ever decline antibiotics, but I had no idea there were other ways to treat GBS. Do you do the yogurt, garlic during your entire pregnancy or just a certain time before delivery? I'd love to see links, too, to the treatments.
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Old 07-01-2013, 11:00 PM   #14
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In some states/jurisdictions, refusal of the antibiotics will get you reported to Family Services for neglect. I know this isn't universal but it is the case in some placesz

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Old 07-02-2013, 05:43 AM   #15
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Is there any alternative to IV abx during labor. I'm not opposed to the medicine as much as I am the added pain. It was awful. Worse than contractions!!!
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Old 07-02-2013, 06:04 AM   #16
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Re: GBS

Every treatment or intervention or medical choice you make is about the risk/benefit ratio. You need to understand both the risks and the benefits to both options before you can make an informed decision. Doctors are not great at giving that info - they usually decide for you and tell you what they're going to do.

In my case, I felt like it was a very safe choice to refuse the GBS swab and look at other preventative measures. Yes, there is some risk. There always is. Accepting the abx doesn't eliminate the risk. It reduces it. The question is, what benefits have we lost, and what other risks may we have incurred?
I would lose out on my homebirth if I tested positive, and thus expose my baby (and the rest of my family) to countless foreign germs at the hospital, rather than the familiar germs of home, to which I already had immunity to share with the baby.
My babies have also all had thrush after delivery. That makes for pretty painful nursing! I didn't want anything else contributing to that!
I also don't think it's healthy for their little bellies to start out with the natural gut bacteria all altered because of abx.
Those things, along with the fact that I had NONE of the risk factors for transmitting the bacteria, made me refuse the swab. Again, there are no guarantees. That is life. Like driving a car - you weigh the risks of accident, with the benefits of getting somewhere faster, and you make a decision.

There seem to be two methods of dealing with GBS infection in the general population. One is to test everyone, and treat all who test positive when they come in to deliver. The other is to test no one, and treat anyone who comes in to labor with risk factors.

OK, so here are some excerpts from the GBS paper. First of all, we are talking about early onset GBS. (the article calls it EOGBSD) There is also late onset GBS. Antibiotics do nothing for that.
As an aside, the formatting on this is terrible - copying and pasting was a royal pain in the butt! Sorry about that.

GBS is normal. It is present in most women at some time or another, and causes no ill effects. It comes and goes.
"approximately 10% to 35% of pregnant women are colonized with gbs in the vagina and/or rectum, with rates varying by study populations, specimen collection, or culturing techniques. (4)
A recent Canadian study determined the prevalence of gbs colonization in pregnant women at 36 weeks gestation to be 19.5%. (5)
When untreated, approximately 50% of infants born to gbs positive mothers become colonized and Eogbsd develops in 1% to 2% of these infants. (6)
This means that in a group of 1000 untreated women, approximately 195 will be
gbs positive, 98 infants will become colonized, and 1-2 will develop Eogbsd"

How does the baby get it?
"Transmission of gbs may occur as the fetus passes through the birth canal or as ascending infection crosses intact membranes. Fetal or neonatal gbs exposure may also occur through the spread of the bacteria into amniotic fluid, which is then aspirated."

What factors increase the risk of the baby getting GBS?
"Several other factors increase the risk of Eogbsd. These include: preterm birth (< 37 weeks), low birth weight, prolonged rupture of membranes, intra-partum fever, chorioamnionitis and frequent (≥ 6) vaginal exams in labour.
Two other factors associated with a high degree of risk are a previous infant with invasive Eogbsd and gbs bacteriuria in pregnancy"

Some of these factors are higher risk than others. The following are the factors that have a high incidence of GBS transmission:
"•Pre-term rupture of membranes in gbs-colonized mother

•chorioamnionitis

•twin with Eogbsd

•gbs bacteriuria during current pregnancy

sibling with Eogbsd"

Here are the risk factors with a lower transmission risk:
•preterm < 37 weeks (10/1000)
•intrapartum fever > 37.5C
•prolonged rupture of membranes > 18 hours
birth weight < 2500 g"

What happens if my baby is one of the few who ends up sick?
Here are the most common ways that GBS infection shows up. These are generally evident in the first 48hr.
"Most neonates with Eogbsd present with one of the following: bacteremia, pneumonia, or meningitis.
CDC surveillance found that 83% of Eogbsd cases had bacteremia, 9% pneumonia and 7% meningitis. (9)
In a Toronto study, similar proportions were noted: 64% bacteremia, 23% pneumonia
and 12.5% meningitis."

"The recent Canadian case fatality rates range from 6% to 9% of babies with Eogbsd with a Toronto study only noting preterm mortalities - all term infants survived."

What does this mean in real numbers?

Using these statistics, if we take an initial group of
17 500 to 50 000 pregnant women:
5000 women will be GBS positive
•2000 to 2500 babies will be colonized with GBS
•20 to 50 babies will develop EOGBSD presenting as the following:
- bacteremia (64% to 83%)
- pneumonia (9% to 23%)
- meningitis (7% to 12.5%) (9,11)
1 to 4.5 babies will die due to EOGBSD (from the initial group of 17 500 to 50 000 pregnant women)

Using a chlorhexidine rinse, garlic cloves, probiotics, and water birth have all been associated with reduced risk of GBS, but there has not been any large scale study done yet to determine exactly how effective these methods are. (I can't see a study like that coming any time soon either. No money to be made.)

So, it's up to you to decide. Hope that helps!
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Old 07-03-2013, 07:25 PM   #17
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Re: GBS

I tested positive for my homebirth, did garlic and hibiclens washes for a week or so, retested and was positive again so had antibiotics in the fridge in case labor was long or water was broken for a long time before pushing. Labor ended up being 3 hours long, I labored in our tub with iodine and hibiclens in it and water broke right before she was born so didn't end up needing them but I was sad the stuff I tried didn't help fortunately she was OK but we did watch her behavior and temp very closely for the first few days just in case
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Old 07-07-2013, 12:09 PM   #18
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Re: GBS

With my first I tested positive, had all the abx during labor, did everything right with no risk factors, and baby girl still got GBS She was very very sick, and spent 12 days in the NICU.

My next 3 births I tested negative(or didn't test at all), and simply followed a protocol of garlic, and femdopholis. Those babies were all fine

IMO the very best option is to treat your body like you have GBS, and treat accordingly BEFORE the birth. I don't think abx are the answer to everything. And I DO think GBS is very serious and should be treated as such.
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:08 PM   #19
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Re: GBS

i have 3 kiddos and was only tested this last time right before my 2nd homebirth, i was + and devastated bc i hate antibiotics and have had bad experiences with them in the past. i declined treatment and instead did thieves oil VERY diluted (test, it should NOT feel hot on your skin otherwise it will burn) in safflower oil internally. labor was 6.5 hrs and my water broke only while i was pushing, still i kept looking at baby for symptoms and being pretty paranoid about her. if i had it all to do over again, i would NOT TEST, but i would simply treat for it and go about my business. to me, the stress was not worth it.
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:16 PM   #20
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Re: GBS

i should say that research has supported thieves oil being able to kill antibiotic resistant staph and strep

quick google yields this link but there is more if you dig

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/08/he...real.html?_r=0
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