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Old 06-23-2008, 03:32 PM   #11
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Re: CIO Help!

Originally Posted by napua View Post
My only help on CIO would be don't do it. It is perfectly normal for a 6 month old baby to wake up to nurse throughout the night. Their bellies are so small and breastmilk digests quickly. I cosleep with my kids so the night nursing doesn't wake me that an option for you?

Originally Posted by waitingtobe View Post
I am sorry mamma that this is getting to be stressful for you...This is what I did for the middle of the night feedings.

We used the CIO method on our DD and it really helped with the night feedings.

I would keep a timer on my night stand to make sure that I followed the time limits. (With you LO crying, it sometimes seems like an hour when it has only been 10 min, KWIM?)

Once she would wake up fussing/crying I would set the timer for 15 min and wait. The first few nights, I would listen to make sure she sounded alright, ie not hurt. After a week or so, I would turn off the monitor during that time.

If she was still crying I would then go in, tell her that she is alright and give her the paci and walk out. If she started crying again, I would then set the timer again for 10 min. If she was still crying, then I went in and feed her.

Most of the time she would fall back to sleep within the first time limit but if she didn't I knew that she is actually hungry.

I completely understand being fustrated and think that the method of CIO DOES work. Brooklyn was sleeping through the night by 4 months with maybe a feeding here or there once a week.

If you have any more questions, just let me know, Or PM me!
You started CIO BEFORE 4months?


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Old 06-23-2008, 03:39 PM   #12
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Re: CIO Help!

I'll pm you. This is a tough crowd re: CIO.
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Old 06-23-2008, 03:44 PM   #13
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Re: CIO Help!

Originally Posted by addiesmommy View Post
I'll pm you. This is a tough crowd re: CIO.
I think that I should have done the same! *shrug*
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Old 06-23-2008, 03:48 PM   #14
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Re: CIO Help!

Originally Posted by calideedle View Post
You started CIO BEFORE 4months?

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Old 06-23-2008, 03:49 PM   #15
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Re: CIO Help!

I know it's hard when you are sleep deprived but CIO isn't the answer. Our babies come into this world without the ability to do much for themselves, and the one thing they do really well is cry. They cry to show us that they need something and they really do hope that when they cry that some big person will come and figure out what it is they are crying about and fix it. When you don't come, they learn that YOU can't be trusted. God only gives them to us entirely for a very short period of time. Love them up while you can and know that before long they won't need you anymore.
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Old 06-23-2008, 03:53 PM   #16
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Re: CIO Help!

Not tryin' to be tough, some of us just know a better way. And there IS a better way. It's VERY hard mama. Most of us have been there. So exhausting. You gotta ask yourself, Does this *feel* right? Letting him cry for hours? Do you want to do that? It doesn't seem like you do since you posted your concerns about it. Follow your gut and try something that causes less distress for your entire family. We also like the no-cry sleep solution book. Just trying to help!
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Old 06-23-2008, 04:00 PM   #17
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Re: CIO Help!

Sleeping through the night is a milestone that is not reached often before a year. My son is 15 months and still nursing through the night. i do not advocate CIO at all, but I really don't before a year old... there are emotional and nutritial needs that your child can need met in the middle of the night. Now if you truly feel that it's for you then I think you have gotten some good advice, however don't let your ped tell you you have to. It's so not uncommon for kids to not sleep through the night at that age. CIO teaches your child to learn to self southe because they realize you won't come meet their needs anymore... good luck! I don't mean to be snarky. I just want to make sure that nobody gets pushed. ARound 6 months old w/ my first on the advice of a nurse practioner in our doctors office we tried CIO once and Brennan cried so hard he puked. I never did it again. ever. I'm not going to lie either, like the previous mama said, getting little sleep for over a year isn't easy, but I have adjusted and kids do sleep someday. AFter a year I did night wean Brennan... but I don't even believe in that until at least 13 months old.
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Old 06-23-2008, 04:15 PM   #18
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Re: CIO Help!

Hugs to you!

I know it can be very trying when all you want is some sleep at night...but CIO is definitely not the answer. Doctors are full of advice, and not all of it is good(in fact, I let MOST of it go in one ear and out the other...LOL). Trust your mommy instincts above all else.

Here is some info for you, hope it helps

Some links about CIO:
This article covers brain development and the different effects of CIO and other actions.
Research shows CIO can cause brain damage in a newborn. CIO will be considered abuse by future generations.
The potential dangers of letting your child CIO and the benefits of AP.
A look at the origin of CIO and AP.
Another article on the development of the infant brain.
Dr. Sears speaks in depth about the shutdown syndrome and the loss of trust between child and parent.
Children Need Touching and Attention, Harvard Researchers Say
Discusses the natural response to baby's cries vs. cultural conditioning
AAIMHI is concerned that the widely practiced technique of ‘controlled crying’is not consistent with what infants need for their optimal emotional and psychological health, and may have unintended negative consequences.

Mistaken approaches to night waking--talks about the notion of 'self-soothing' and explains why it's incorrect and the emotional conesequences of not responding appropriately to baby's cries.

Gaye E. McKinnon's article on the case against CIO and an explanation why expecting an infant to be independent is unrealistic.

8 Infant sleep facts every parent should know. In order to better understand the how-to's of getting you and your baby to enjoy going to sleep and staying asleep, here are some important principles of sleep that every new parent needs to understand.

The Cons of Controlled Crying - discusses the physical and emotional cons of forcing babies to cry, including different studies and a very good explanation of WHY CIO is cruel.

Not Sleeping Like a Baby - an ABC news article where Dr. Ferber discusses how misunderstood his methods are. It also addresses more risks of CIO, and also the benefits of co-sleeping.

Here is an article about not sleeping through the night:

Sleeping through the Night
by Katherine A. Dettwyler, Ph.D.
Department of Anthropology,
Texas A & M University

[This essay was originally directed to one person. It has been edited slightly to make it less specific.]
I am an Adjunct (semi-retired) Associate Professor of Anthropology and Nutrition at Texas A&M University, and I do research on infant/child feeding beliefs/practices both cross-culturally and from an evolutionary perspective, as well as research on children's health and growth. I know from first-hand experience that being a new parent is a difficult time of adjustment, especially when expectations don't match reality, especially when our culture has taught us that children should have certain needs/wants/behaviors and then our children don't seem to fit that mold. This problem of a mismatch between expectations and reality can be very difficult for new parents to accept and adjust to. Sometimes, some children can be encouraged/convinced/forced to fit the mold of cultural expectations, and they do fine. Othertimes, though they do eventually fit the mold, it is at the expense of their sense of who they are, their self-confidence, their view of the world as a safe and trusting place, sometimes, even, at the expense of their health or life. Probably nowhere do cultural expectations and the reality of children's needs conflict more than in the two areas of breastfeeding frequency and sleeping behaviors.

Human children are designed (whether you believe by millions of years of evolution, or by God, it doesn't matter) -- to nurse *very* frequently, based on the composition of the milk of the species, the fact that all higher primates (Primates are the zoological Order to which humans belong, higher primates include monkeys and apes) keep their offspring in the mother's arms or on her back for several years, the size of the young child's stomach, the rapidity with which breast milk is digested, the need for an almost constant source of nutrients to grow that huge brain (in humans, especially), and so on.

By very frequently, I mean 3-4 times per hour, for a few minutes each time. The way in which some young infants are fed in our culture -- trying to get them to shift to a 3-4 hour schedule, with feedings of 15-20 minutes at a time, goes against our basic physiology. But humans are very adaptable, and some mothers will be able to make sufficient milk with this very infrequent stimulation and draining of the breasts, and some children will be able to adapt to large meals spaced far apart. Unfortunately, some mothers don't make enough milk with this little nursing, and some babies can't adjust, and so are fussy, cry a lot, seem to want to nurse "before it is time" and fail to grow and thrive. Of course, usually the mother's body is blamed --"You can't make enough milk" -- rather than the culturally-imposed expectation that feeding every 3-4 hours should be sufficient, and the mother begins supplementing with formula, which leads to a steady spiral downward to complete weaning from the breast. Human children are also designed to have breast milk be a part of their diet for a minimum of 2.5 years, with many indicators pointing to 6-7 years as the true physiological duration of breastfeeding -- regardless of what your cultural beliefs may be. I can provide you with references to my research on this topic if you wish to read more.

The same is true of sleeping. Human children are designed to be sleeping with their parents. The sense of touch is the most important sense to primates, along with sight. Young primates are carried on their mother's body and sleep with her for years after birth, often until well after weaning. The expected pattern is for mother and child to sleep together, and for child to be able to nurse whenever they want during the night. Normal, healthy, breastfed and co-sleeping children do not sleep "through the night" (say 7-9 hours at a stretch) until they are 3-4 years old, and no longer need night nursing. I repeat -- this is NORMAL and HEALTHY. Dr. James McKenna's research on co-sleeping clearly shows the dangers of solitary sleeping in young infants, who slip into abnormal patterns of very deep sleep from which it is very difficult for them to rouse themselves when they experience an episode of apnea (stop breathing).

When co-sleeping, the mother is monitoring the baby's sleep and breathing patterns, even though she herself is asleep. When the baby has an episode of apnea, she rouses the baby by her movements and touch. This is thought to be the primary mechanism by which co-sleeping protects children from Sudden Infant Death Syndrome. In other words, many cases of SIDS in solitary sleeping children are thought to be due to them having learned to sleep for long stretches at a time at a very early age, so they find themselves in these deep troughs of sleep, then they may experience an episode of apnea, and no one is there to notice or rouse them from it, so they just never start breathing again. Co-sleeping also allows a mother to monitor the baby's temperature during the night, to be there if they spit up and start to choke, and just to provide the normal, safe environment that the baby/child has been designed to expect.

Is this convenient for parents? No!
Is this difficult for some new parents to adjust to? Yes! No doubt about it, the gap between what our culture teaches us to expect of the sleep patterns of a young child (read them a story, tuck them in, turn out the light, and not see them again for 8 hours) and the reality of how children actually sleep if healthy and normal, yawns widely.

But the first steps to dealing with the fact that your young child doesn't sleep through the night, or doesn't want to sleep without you is to realize that:

(1) Not sleeping through the night until they are 3 or 4 years of age is normal and healthy behavior for human infants.

(2) Your children are not being difficult or manipulative, they are being normal and healthy, and behaving in ways that are appropriate for our species.

Once you understand these simple truths, it becomes much easier to deal with parenting your child at night. Once you give up the idea that you must have 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep at night, and view these nighttime interactions with your child as precious and
fleeting, you get used to them very quickly.

I highly recommend Dr. Sears' book on Nighttime Parenting [available from the La Leche League International Catalogue]. Our children's early years represent the most important and influential time of their lives. It passes all too quickly. But meeting your child's needs during these first few years will pay off in many ways in the years to come.
Prepared August 25, 1997

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Old 06-23-2008, 04:27 PM   #19
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Re: CIO Help!

Thank you ladies for all your advice. And no I don't feel attacked, I know mamas have strong opinions and if any of my beliefs were being asked I would stand up for I believe so I will keep trying different things. We did try the no-cry sleep plan but missed the WOW in the early months. With the CIO we used Ferber aproach which to me seemed a little less cruel; but I think the majority of the time with my lo he wakes up and just wants to be near us. Since he nurses for maybe a min before konking out again.

We did the whole bed-sharing-feeding on demand for the first 6 months but DH and I were so exhausted from his wiggly-kicking frenzy and waking every hour each night that in the morning after ds woke up and we were still asleep he climber over us and fell off the bed and thats when I felt the need to try to get him to sleep in his crib and through the night or at least for a good 3 or 4 hours straight.

It looks like I really need to do more research and find the right solution for our family.

Thanks again
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Old 06-23-2008, 04:46 PM   #20
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Re: CIO Help!

Hi Mama. I know how hard this can be. We co sleep and then when it becomes uncomfortable we move them to a crib in our room. My son moved to a crib at 18 months when we were having the new baby and my pregnancy was too uncomfortable to bed share. With the crib in our room he had all the same sights, sounds and smells.

A couple of things about CIO I don't understand. One is that ALL these babies know is their moms and dads, it would be so scary to be put somewhere all alone just because we decide its inconvenient. Also, I dont understand looking at the baby but not picking them up. The last thing I want my boys to think is A) I don't want to help them but will just watch them suffer or B)I cant meet their basic needs. CIO doesn't teach a baby to sleep on their own it teaches them to give up asking for you, and thats not something I want to teach my boys. My good friend CIO with her 6 month old and it got to be whenever they'd walk in her room to change her, her daughter would get so upset she'd throw up.

I hope this doesn't sound mean, I know how hard it can be, especially when a ped. is telling you to do this. I also know how hard it is to go without sleep. But I think its our jobs as parents to help find the gentlest way to transition, especially something like this. I hope you find a solution that works for all of you.
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