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Old 07-10-2008, 02:02 PM   #11
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Re: what do you make of the autism and vax connection?

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Years ago they thought that the mercury that was in the vaccines may be linked to autism. But now most childhood vaccines have no mercury in them. Make sure to check with your pediatrician to ensure that the brand of vaccine your child is getting is mercury free.
There's lots of crap in vaccines though. Dr. Sears made an interesting point in The Vaccine Book. He talks about aluminum in vaccines and how he couldn't find ANY studies saying that the aluminum was safe. They know it can cause neurological damage, yet they assume that the dosages in vaccines are safe. His point was merely to say he thought they needed to do more research and recommended that parents space out aluminum-containing vaccines. I'm butchering that part of the book, but I would suggest you read it.

To me, that just shows we really don't know what we're doing with all these vaccines. I don't think they do enough testing and I think pharm companies are just way too eager to add more doses to the already heavy schedule that new vaccines get pushed through and approved without really understanding the effects it will have.

For example, in the book Evidence of Harm when someone finally stopped to question how there was so much mercury in vaccines, the best answer anyone could give was that no one had ever bothered to add up the total sum of mercury in vaccines in a child's lifetime. They assumed that if one dose was safe, multiple doses were safe. Evidence of Harm is worth the read too. You notice that there is no longer mercury in vaccines (supposedly). Ever wonder why? All you ever hear is that mercury isn't the cause of autism. Then why did they have to quietly pull it out of all vaccines? Because the sh!t would have hit the fan had anyone actually admitted mercury was dangerous.

Sorry... I'm pretty opinionated about this, as you can tell.

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Old 07-10-2008, 02:50 PM   #12
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Re: what do you make of the autism and vax connection?

I think vaccines cause superbugs not the other way around.

Also there is still mercury in some MMRs and in some flu shots.


It has been proven in court there is a connection to vaccines and autism. You can be genetically predisposed to it and the vaccines cause it to react in a way that has autism LIKE symptoms.

I know 3 moms that have autistic children, 1 has 2 boys. They ALL say they would never vaccinate again if they could go back. Thats enough proof for me.
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Old 07-10-2008, 03:06 PM   #13
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Re: what do you make of the autism and vax connection?

Read my post in this thread about my dd:

http://www.diaperswappers.com/forum/...d.php?t=442618

The one thing I didn't mention there is that she recieved her MMR shot on 11/10/06 and the hospitalization I'm referring to was on 11/30/06. I have always wondered if the two things were related, but any time I bring up my concern with anyone, they think I'm being nuts. The day she got that shot, she had a fever that spiked to 104. I was able to keep it down to 102 WITH tylenol. I called the doctor. They weren't concerned. I didn't think they would be. She developed a cold after than and it went from there.

I have a 33 year old brother with Aspberger's. My Mom doesn't remember a whole lot from back when my brother was little, but it's kind of funny that he developed a high fever after getting the MMR and within a few weeks after that, he lost all of his hair overnight as well as his ability to walk and talk and pretty much anything else. He had to relearn everything. I knew my brother had Aspberger's, but I didn't know this story until AFTER Victoria got out of the hospital. My Mom is convinced the MMR didn't cause this because every single doctor and anyone else who worked with my brother said it wasn't connected.

I really don't know what to believe about this. Because of my experiences, I do think there's a connection.
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Old 07-10-2008, 03:20 PM   #14
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Re: what do you make of the autism and vax connection?

I have a son with autism. The very first vaccine he received most likely was one of the leftover vaccines that contained the full dose of thimersol. They did not recall the vaccines that contained this, they merely phased them out. That means that vaccines containing it sat for years on shelves of doctors offices and hospitals as they continued to inject children with it. My son received this vaccine at birth. I can never look back and say he was normal before a vaccine, I won't know. He did show signs/symptoms of autism early on by at least 6 months, but this is just looking back. He was our first child and we didn't know that the things he was doing weren't the norm (focusing on the parts of toys instead of the whole -- spinning a wheel over and over, but not driving the car -- among other things).

I do know that he got worse after the MMR. Maybe just coincidental, maybe not. After the MMR he actually lost the ability to use the word mom (the only word he actually used at that point) and lost the ability to do baby signs to tell us he was "all done" and such.

After learning he was probably autistic (before he official dx), I started searching through books on vaccines and books on autism as well as things I could find online. I found a series of articles written that looked at why the Amish have a much lower incidence of autism than the general population. Those that they found that did have autism in most cases had either gone against their traditional beliefs and had their children vaccinated or had been exposed to mercury in other ways through the environment. That right there proved to me that there has to be some connection to at least some of the cases of autism.

My youngest had been vaccinated up until 6 months and it was just before he was 9 months that I was learning all of this. DH and I chose to stop vaccinating and any future children we have will not be vaccinated at all.

We obviously have the genetic component, I cannot risk triggering autism in any other children.

Oh and about the superbugs thing, my son with autism who got vaccinated for chicken pox actually got chicken pox earlier this year. When I took him to the doctor to make sure that's what it was, the doctor told us that sometimes they can't tell if it's chicken pox anymore. Chicken pox has mutated and does not always look like what it's supposed to look like. A lot of times they can only figure out that it's chicken pox because they culture it. So, yeah, I think vaccines and overuse of antibiotics is what causes superbugs.
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Old 07-10-2008, 03:30 PM   #15
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Re: what do you make of the autism and vax connection?

One more thought on autism being genetic....

In the book I mentioned Changing the Course of Autism it talked the different theories behind the rise in autism rates. Autism used to be unheard of and now 1 in 150 kids is diagnosed with it. You can't have a genetic outbreak of a disorder. There has to be an environmental trigger for it, even if genetics plays a part. But to go from unheard to epidemic and say it's just genetic? Hardly. So if it's not vaccines, something is causing it.

In the same book they mentioned the theory that perhaps we're just better at diagnosing it. The book was a lot more thorough in the explanation, but basically autism is severe enough that if we are just better at diagnosing it in children, we ought to be able to find scores of autistic adults somewhere as well, in institutions and whatnot-- but there aren't.
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Old 07-10-2008, 04:05 PM   #16
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Re: what do you make of the autism and vax connection?

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What's scary to me is that if your little one has the predisposed condition that vaxing would aggravate, there's no way to know until after you vax for it. It's like russian roulette, and it scares me. I think there is that connection, and I wish they'd make it easier to know if your little one is going to be safe or not.
I agree. For myself, until it can be said with a certainty (which I don't think will ever happen) that the two are not related, I'm not comfortable giving this shot to my kids.

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I have 3 children and am a special education teacher. I have worked with many children with autism. Years ago they thought that the mercury that was in the vaccines may be linked to autism. But now most childhood vaccines have no mercury in them. Make sure to check with your pediatrician to ensure that the brand of vaccine your child is getting is mercury free.

I also have seen in the children that I work with that their is a huge genetic link with many families having 2 or more children with some form of autism. Autism or PDD often does not show in children until we expect to see language @ 18mths-3 years old. Unfortunately this is the time that children are scheduled to receive routine vaccinations. I believe that this is just coincidence of timing. Anyone can take information or studies to prove a point on one side of the debate or the other. I think it is a shame that they are trying to scare so many parents into not getting proper vaccines for their children. It is much more dangerous not to get your child vaccinated. Thanks to the miracle of vaccinations most childhood illness that once children have been eradicated. If parents continue to move forward not vaccinating their children they are putting our children at risk by not only bringing back these horrible illness' but turning them into superbugs.

"mercury free" isn't really mercury free. They still use thimerisol to produce the vaccine, but most is removed at the end. There's still some in there, but not enough that it has to be listed in the ingredients. So kids are still getting thimerisol, just not as much, but it does accumulate.

IMO, and I know not everyone agrees with this...the risk of there being a connection and my child ending up with autism vs. the risk of my child getting measles, mumps, or rubella...I'd prefer the latter.
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Old 07-10-2008, 04:14 PM   #17
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Re: what do you make of the autism and vax connection?

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Originally Posted by Julie K View Post
I agree. For myself, until it can be said with a certainty (which I don't think will ever happen) that the two are not related, I'm not comfortable giving this shot to my kids.




"mercury free" isn't really mercury free. They still use thimerisol to produce the vaccine, but most is removed at the end. There's still some in there, but not enough that it has to be listed in the ingredients. So kids are still getting thimerisol, just not as much, but it does accumulate.

IMO, and I know not everyone agrees with this...the risk of there being a connection and my child ending up with autism vs. the risk of my child getting measles, mumps, or rubella...I'd prefer the latter.

I completely agree !

And I firmly believe that vaccinations create superbugs. The more we vaccinate and give antibiotics, the more a bug will mutate and eventually become completely immune to our vaccines.

I made the mistake and got both kids the Flu shot this past winter because my entire family had it and was super sick, 4 days after they got the shots they both came down with Croup (and well before being around any of the rest of the family). The Ped said that it was from the flu shot and that they wouldnt have been as sick if I hadnt vaxed them !
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Old 07-10-2008, 05:13 PM   #18
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Re: what do you make of the autism and vax connection?

Just my

1. I taught a Special Olympics swim team. Almost every single mother of an autistic child could relate how their child was different before receiving their vaxs

2. a. there are still vaxes that were made "before thermerosal was taken out"
b. MMR and flu still list it in the ingredients
c. Just b/c they say thermerosal free - they just made it a small amount of inert ingredients so they don't have to list it - it is still there
d. where it has been taken out completely it has been replaced by aluminum

3. as for non vaxing creates "superbugs" that's bull. Look at MRSA. Which is methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus. basically we have been using so much penicillin and its derivitives with staph for so long it's created a superbug. It is the vaxes that will create superbugs, not people who don't vax.

4. and as a pp has said - there have been surveys of the Amish who where we have 1 out of 150 kids with autism they had 3 in their entire population. If I'm not mistaken, two had been vaxed (for some odd known reason) and the third was an adopted child that had been vaxed prior to adoption.
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Old 07-10-2008, 05:44 PM   #19
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Re: what do you make of the autism and vax connection?

Autism is not the black and white diagnosis of many diseases. IT isn't like a broken bone or diabetes. There is no test that can absolutely identify "autism". Because of that, and because austism is a spectrum there are probably as many causes to autism as there are children and adults with autism. It isn't just genetic, it isn't just vaccines, it isn't just enviromental toxins, it isn't just womb enviroment, ect. All of those things can cause autism, but no one of them is going to be the cause for every child.

It seems to me that every one who doesn't want to believe that autism is caused by vaccines uses one of two arguments, that if autism were caused by vaccines every vaccinated child would be autistic (not sure how that even makes sense to be honest) or because there are autistic children who were never vaccinated vaccines can't be the cause. But again this assumes that the same thing causes every single case of autism. This is just plain not true.

The government recently conceded a case of vaccine caused autism due to mitochondrial disorder. And let me tell you if you can get through the NVIC then you have a very very strong case. People who's children died of obvious anaphylaxsis after a vaccine lose out in the NVIC because one file is missing or they run out of money to keep fighting. It is not easy to prove a case to NVIC, but this family did it. That's pretty strong evidence. And keep in mind you have no way of knowing if your child has a mitochondrial disorder until after it is triggered, there is no test for it.

The aap has openly admitted that MMR causes encephalitis. Encephalitis can cause brain damage, seizure disorders and death. These seizure disorders and brain damage can cause symptoms that resemble autism. Now wether they are true autism or not is a matter of symantics but the fact is there are plenty of children out there diagnosed with autism who have it as a result of encephalitic seizure disorders or brain damage. New studies show for some children anti seizure drugs totally change their lives even though they supposedly don't have a seizure disorder they have autism. My own son has encephalitic braindamage that has resulted in an autism diagnosis. He also has the same strain of measels from the vaccine living in his intestines wreaking havock on his system. He has been tested by one of the leading pedi neuros and pedi gastros in the area to come to this diagnosis. You could argue that he is not actually autistic, he has encephalitic braindamage, but the diagnosis is still the same and the fact remains that he isn't the only one.

Yes some genetics has to play a role. Something has to predispose a child to a reaction wether it be a mitochondrial disorder, being prone to allergy to this or that, being unable to process toxins (mercury is by far not the only dangerous toxin in vaccines, read the ingredients list sometime), or whatever. Something makes some kids react. Just like something makes some kids allergic to penecillin or peanuts. But we know that some drugs and vaccines are not safe for some children, wether genetics plays a role or not the fact remains the reaction wouldn't have happened if they were not exposed to the drug or vaccine in the first place.

I'm going to go ahead and post links again. Some people will continue to believe that there is no way vaccines could cause autism but in light of the most recent court case, it is getting harder to deny.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/digitalli...5/ecnmmr25.xml

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...rate-jabs.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...o-MMR-jab.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...tistic%27.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ty-of-MMR.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-findings.html



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/ma...05/hmmr105.xml

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.p...w&pageId=57629

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-...-_b_88558.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum

http://drbenkim.com/articles-vaccine-risks.htm

http://www.thinktwice.com/

http://www.909shot.com/

http://www.generationrescue.org/survey.html

http://www.rescuepost.com/rescue_pos...a-meet-ou.html

http://whale.to/vaccine/olmsted.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...to-autism.html

http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...ract/101/3/383


Or you could always go to VAERS and type in Autism and see what you get.
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Old 07-10-2008, 05:51 PM   #20
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Re: what do you make of the autism and vax connection?

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Originally Posted by palmettosweetheart View Post
Just my

1. I taught a Special Olympics swim team. Almost every single mother of an autistic child could relate how their child was different before receiving their vaxs

2. a. there are still vaxes that were made "before thermerosal was taken out"
b. MMR and flu still list it in the ingredients
c. Just b/c they say thermerosal free - they just made it a small amount of inert ingredients so they don't have to list it - it is still there
d. where it has been taken out completely it has been replaced by aluminum

3. as for non vaxing creates "superbugs" that's bull. Look at MRSA. Which is methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus. basically we have been using so much penicillin and its derivitives with staph for so long it's created a superbug. It is the vaxes that will create superbugs, not people who don't vax.

4. and as a pp has said - there have been surveys of the Amish who where we have 1 out of 150 kids with autism they had 3 in their entire population. If I'm not mistaken, two had been vaxed (for some odd known reason) and the third was an adopted child that had been vaxed prior to adoption.


Thermarisol was never in MMR, it should not be in the ingredients. It isn't in any of the live virus vaccines. However one or two of the new flu shots do have it, and it would not suprise me in the least if gardasil does. But you are right, all vaccines other than live virus are still made with it and they cannot remove it all. That means there are still "trace amounts" so how much trace amount does it take to accumulate and cause a problem. Especially considering the sheer volume of vaccines given now vs even ten years ago, heck vs four years ago. And it isn't like mercury is the only dangerous thing in vaccines. Aluminum is linked with alzheimers and is a known neurotoxin, it's in vaccines, formadahyde is in vaccines, high dose antibiotics, MSG, monkey kidney cells, aborted fetal cells, bovine serum, I can keep going. Vaccines aren't just dead viruses. Everyone wanted us to look at mercury so we would turn a bind eye to the other stuff in vaccines, the other problems with vaccines. Even the administration of vaccines sets a child up for problems. Injected into the body instead of taking the normal route through the mouth or nose, given in combinations of up to 10 at one appt, how often is your child going to come down with 10 illnesses at once? All of it sets you up for issues.

People jsut don't get it until they have been there, like you saw working with families with autistic kids. It is not normal for a child to be talking and interacting at 18 months or 2yrs and just stop. Something has to go wrong for that to happen. It isn't natural.
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