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Old 07-10-2008, 07:31 PM   #21
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Re: what do you make of the autism and vax connection?

I don't buy it because so many more boys have autism than girls, but kids are immunized at the same rates.

Also, mercury was taken out of vaccines, but the levels of autism are rising. However, ADHD diagnoses are falling. Some of the same kids that were diagnosed ADHD in elementary are now being called autistic at the middle school level. I think that often it is overly diagnosed because it is easier to call the student autistic than to raise expectations and hold that student to expectations. I do not mean profoundly autistic kids in this case. But I have about 25 kids labeled autistic in my classes (out of 175 kids), and most of them are a little odd, but if you met the parents, it makes the kids make perfect sense. I believe there is a genetic link much more that a vaccine one.

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Old 07-10-2008, 07:55 PM   #22
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Re: what do you make of the autism and vax connection?

I do not believe that there is a definitive enough correlation between the two. Basically, enough people found circumstantial correlations and blew it way out of proportion and a lot of the people who are writing books now are writing them based on PERSONAL experiences/opinions... I don't believe a lot of them even have medical training of any kind.

I believe it's largely genetic, with a bit of environmental. I think if a child is already predisposed to it, then MAYBE a vaccine would trigger a reaction with them, but that it's not as common as people claim.

(Please do not bombard me with any information... I have DONE hours and hours and hours and days and months worth of research both before and after my daughter's been born and I believe that vaccinations are the best in her situation.)
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Old 07-10-2008, 08:04 PM   #23
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Re: what do you make of the autism and vax connection?

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Originally Posted by luvsviola View Post
I don't buy it because so many more boys have autism than girls, but kids are immunized at the same rates.
I read that testosterone aggravates the mercury toxicity, while estrogen kind of protects against it... if that makes sense. Not that testosterone causes autism, but that it might explain why boys are more prone to it. Do a quick google search of "testosterone" and "autism." There's some interesting stuff.
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Old 07-10-2008, 08:32 PM   #24
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Re: what do you make of the autism and vax connection?

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Autism is not the black and white diagnosis of many diseases. IT isn't like a broken bone or diabetes. There is no test that can absolutely identify "autism". Because of that, and because austism is a spectrum there are probably as many causes to autism as there are children and adults with autism. It isn't just genetic, it isn't just vaccines, it isn't just enviromental toxins, it isn't just womb enviroment, ect. All of those things can cause autism, but no one of them is going to be the cause for every child.

It seems to me that every one who doesn't want to believe that autism is caused by vaccines uses one of two arguments, that if autism were caused by vaccines every vaccinated child would be autistic (not sure how that even makes sense to be honest) or because there are autistic children who were never vaccinated vaccines can't be the cause. But again this assumes that the same thing causes every single case of autism. This is just plain not true.

The government recently conceded a case of vaccine caused autism due to mitochondrial disorder. And let me tell you if you can get through the NVIC then you have a very very strong case. People who's children died of obvious anaphylaxsis after a vaccine lose out in the NVIC because one file is missing or they run out of money to keep fighting. It is not easy to prove a case to NVIC, but this family did it. That's pretty strong evidence. And keep in mind you have no way of knowing if your child has a mitochondrial disorder until after it is triggered, there is no test for it.

The aap has openly admitted that MMR causes encephalitis. Encephalitis can cause brain damage, seizure disorders and death. These seizure disorders and brain damage can cause symptoms that resemble autism. Now wether they are true autism or not is a matter of symantics but the fact is there are plenty of children out there diagnosed with autism who have it as a result of encephalitic seizure disorders or brain damage. New studies show for some children anti seizure drugs totally change their lives even though they supposedly don't have a seizure disorder they have autism. My own son has encephalitic braindamage that has resulted in an autism diagnosis. He also has the same strain of measels from the vaccine living in his intestines wreaking havock on his system. He has been tested by one of the leading pedi neuros and pedi gastros in the area to come to this diagnosis. You could argue that he is not actually autistic, he has encephalitic braindamage, but the diagnosis is still the same and the fact remains that he isn't the only one.

Yes some genetics has to play a role. Something has to predispose a child to a reaction wether it be a mitochondrial disorder, being prone to allergy to this or that, being unable to process toxins (mercury is by far not the only dangerous toxin in vaccines, read the ingredients list sometime), or whatever. Something makes some kids react. Just like something makes some kids allergic to penecillin or peanuts. But we know that some drugs and vaccines are not safe for some children, wether genetics plays a role or not the fact remains the reaction wouldn't have happened if they were not exposed to the drug or vaccine in the first place.

I'm going to go ahead and post links again. Some people will continue to believe that there is no way vaccines could cause autism but in light of the most recent court case, it is getting harder to deny.
You said this so well. And I think this is why the autism/vaccine debate is so frustrating. People want one clear-cut answer. People want to hear xxx causes autism and that xxx is the only thing that causes autism. But because it's not that simple, and because there are so many factors and types of autism, people seem willing to throw out the connection altogether.
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Old 07-10-2008, 08:35 PM   #25
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Re: what do you make of the autism and vax connection?

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I do not believe that there is a definitive enough correlation between the two. Basically, enough people found circumstantial correlations and blew it way out of proportion and a lot of the people who are writing books now are writing them based on PERSONAL experiences/opinions... I don't believe a lot of them even have medical training of any kind.
I think you're reading the wrong kinds of books. There are lots of books written by medical professionals with all sorts of scientific studies to back up their theories. But don't worry, I won't bombard you with that info.
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Old 07-10-2008, 08:59 PM   #26
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Re: what do you make of the autism and vax connection?

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Originally Posted by Equivocal View Post
I do not believe that there is a definitive enough correlation between the two. Basically, enough people found circumstantial correlations and blew it way out of proportion and a lot of the people who are writing books now are writing them based on PERSONAL experiences/opinions... I don't believe a lot of them even have medical training of any kind.
I believe it's largely genetic, with a bit of environmental. I think if a child is already predisposed to it, then MAYBE a vaccine would trigger a reaction with them, but that it's not as common as people claim.

(Please do not bombard me with any information... I have DONE hours and hours and hours and days and months worth of research both before and after my daughter's been born and I believe that vaccinations are the best in her situation.)
I'm not going to bombard you with information, just a quick side note to your argument. First plenty of studies have been done by Dr's and scientists, even the AAP has released a study. I posted them already. But what I really wanted to point out is that there is the same amounts and types of evidence connecting vaccines with some types of autism as there is connecting certain strains of HPV with cervical cancer. I keep bringing it up in the Gardasil thread that there has not been an actual causal link established between these strains of HPV and cervical cancer, it is the same as vaccines and autism. In fact there are probably more studies for vaccines and autism than HPV and cervical cancer. So why is it that we can claim gardasil is a cervical cancer vaccine and we are going to rush out and vaccinate our daughters to protect them, but we will still buy that vaccines don't cause autism?
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Old 07-10-2008, 09:18 PM   #27
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Re: what do you make of the autism and vax connection?

Right now the cause of autism is in a very cyclical "chicken or egg" phase. No one really knows if it's genetic, environmental, or both.

There are children who received vaxes and then suddenly showed signs of autism. But there are unvaxed kids who suddenly showed signs of autism! And then there are the kids that showed signs of autism from birth!

So, how can it only be the vaccine, if unvax'd kids are getting it? It has to have a genetic factor because some kids show signs from birth, but then why hasn't the genetic link been found? Perhaps because that link only pre-disposes them?

See how crazy this is? No wonder so many parents are scared!

I am a Speech Pathologist. Before I became a SAHM I specialized in working with children with autism and learning disabilities. I have 3 autistic nephews....one showed signs from birth, one regressed at 2 even though he'd never had a vaccine, and the third began to show signs of autism at 1 year.

I absolutely believe that autism has a genetic link. I also believe that it's entirely possible that autism has multiple causes, resulting in the same outcome.

Like any other topic, you can only do what you feel is best for your children. Vax'd kids are fine and unvax'd still have autism...until the cause(s) are determined there is no guarantee either way.
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Old 07-10-2008, 09:22 PM   #28
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Re: what do you make of the autism and vax connection?

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Originally Posted by Equivocal View Post
I do not believe that there is a definitive enough correlation between the two. Basically, enough people found circumstantial correlations and blew it way out of proportion and a lot of the people who are writing books now are writing them based on PERSONAL experiences/opinions... I don't believe a lot of them even have medical training of any kind.

I believe it's largely genetic, with a bit of environmental. I think if a child is already predisposed to it, then MAYBE a vaccine would trigger a reaction with them, but that it's not as common as people claim.

(Please do not bombard me with any information... I have DONE hours and hours and hours and days and months worth of research both before and after my daughter's been born and I believe that vaccinations are the best in her situation.)
I am just wondering if you have ever read the package inserts on many vaccines, MMR included? The CDC claims there is no relationship, however the manufacture of the vaccine list clear evidense that autistic symptoms are listed as "adverse reactions" on their extensive list of warnings.... there has been problems listed on the insert regarding: blood, lymphatic, digestive, cardiovascular, immune, nervous, respiratory, and sensory, encephalitis, encephalopathy, neurological disorders, seizure disorders, convulsions, learning disabilities, subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE), demyelination of the nerve sheaths, Guillain-Barre' syndrome (paralysis), muscle incoordination, deafness, panniculitis, vasculitis, optic neuritis (including partial or total blindness), retinitis, otitis media, bronchial spasms, fever, headache, joint pain, arthritis (acute and chronic), transverse myelitis, thrombocytopenia (blood clotting disorders and spontaneous bleeding), anaphylaxis (severe allergic reactions), lymphadenopathy, leukocytosis, pneumonitis, Stevens-Johnson syndrome, erythema multiforme, urticaria, pancreatitis, parotitis, inflammatory bowel disease, Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis, meningitis, diabetes, autism, immune system disorders, and death... I don't understand how you can deny the realtionship when you read and reserch the package inserts.

If your child develops loss of learned skills days after MMR, I am sure you would be more questioning, and it's sad that so many parents have no knowledge, and then vax and then it happens to them. I wish to God someone would have told me what Gullain Barre was and that it was in the package insert my Merck as a adverse reaction on the MMR and DTaP...if I would have only known before I gave those to my son, but unless you reaserch names you don't understand, you won't know anything about the disease associated with it.

Also, I really wonder how 85% of children with autism that are tested have the measles virus living in their guts, the same exact strain that is in the vaccines Why has 1 billion dollars been given to parents whos children have had reactions? Why is 15% of that money come from the MMR alone?

When you look at the ingredients alone that go into the MMR and break them down and see every reaction that can come from every ingredient, then combine the ingredients, you can see how easily a child could develop autism or many other things.

If any of you ladies are doubting that autism and MMR are at least related, please watch this...and tell the mom in this video that you don't see the correlation...I dare you. It is a video of a little boys life months before MMR, and is very well documented as far as developmental milestones, and then he's showed waving goodbye to the camera (and to his mommy forever as she knew him), and he gets the MMR the next day...18 days later he's showed again, and you can see that he's totally gone. This had my DH and I in tears when we watched it.

Paul Part1


Paul Part2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSis9...eature=related
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Old 07-10-2008, 09:38 PM   #29
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Re: what do you make of the autism and vax connection?

Also, I noted that a lot of you are misinformed regarding thimerosal (a mercury based preservative) that you are claiming that has been "removed" from vaccines has NOT been removed.

Here is the CDC's ingredients list..you'll see that there are SEVERAL vaccines that still contain "trace amts" however, even in trace amts when you receive boosters, and yearly shots like the flu vaccine...it builds up in your body, and the number of vaccines have increased from 10 in 1984 to over 30 today, so that is why there is an increase of the number of autism cases.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...nt-table-2.pdf

Also like someone else pointed out, when there is no thimerosal in a vaccine, there is other things that are just as bad and dangerous. If you look at the Environmental Protection Agency's website and see things like Formaldehyde that is listed as one of the most hazardous compounds (worst 10%) to ecosystems and human health and is not safe at ANY level of exposure. Of course there are tons of other ingredients that are just as horrible as thimerosal and formaldehyde though.

I do believe that genetics play a roll and some kids are predisposed to autism, and the vaccine triggers it, however that does not matter, I don't want to test the theory out on my healthy kids who so far don't have autism, and chance them developing autism because of something they're predisposed to getting triggered by the vaccine.
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Old 07-10-2008, 10:02 PM   #30
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Re: what do you make of the autism and vax connection?

Maybe Canada's different but the vax in questions was taken out from here about 4 or 5 years ago, it was a mixed vax with mercury in it and now they give it in 3 needles not one, with no merc.
I questioned this 8 years ago with my dd and again with my ds this time...the risks of vaxing vrs the risks of not and both times I decided to vax,and I prefer to vax.
I pray to God I'm doing the right thing and I believe I am so that's the best I can do right now, the thing is these disease are still out there, not so much in north america, but what if my kids want to travel later on in life?
I want to make sure they're as protected as they can be and I pray to God no harm comes to them by my trying to protect them in the recomended ways...
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