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Old 06-17-2009, 09:20 AM   #261
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

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I assure you, as someone who works in a veterinary clinic and is in pursing a degree in veterinary technology, removing declaws and docking tails is NOT purely cosmetic. It is often set in tradition, and some people do prefer certain breeds for docked tails because of the way it "looks," but ask the dog that has multiple tail injuries, or your walls with streaks of bloood after a tail injury, and you'll know it is not purely cosmetic. It can and is also a preventative procedure.
I'm so sorry to bring this thread up again, but I seriously couldn't let this go. I realize that you are banned, but if you happen across this - I hope that someone gives you some education before you actually start to practice. I have seen many cases of "happy tail" through my ten years of experience in the field, you are seriously blowing it out of proportion. I have never seen or heard of a DVM who will recommend tail docking to prevent tail injury later in life. The vast vast vast majority of dogs keep their long tails throughout their entire life with no problem. To recommend that every 2-3 day old puppy have their tail cut of with a dog nail trimmer with no anesthesia, pain medication, or sutures is insane. ( I guess neonates of any species don't feel pain, right ) I do realize that some DVMs will do actual anesthesia and surgery on the puppies, but I have never seen it "done properly" and most are done by breeders now to save cost. You know they don't have any anesthesia available to them. It is NEVER done as a preventative and ALWAYS done as a cosmetic procedure. As far as dewclaws, there have been a few injuries over the years, but honestly I've seen more injuries to the "normal" 4 claws on the foot itself. Again, its purely cosmetic. There are many animal injuries that can result in a "bloodbath" but that doesn't mean that random body parts should be cut off to try to prevent them when the chance of injury on any given pet is very low.

To put it simply - your comment was insulting to think that the veterinary professions can be represented by someone with so little education. Ugh.

OH, and just to keep on topic - YAY foreskin!!

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Old 06-17-2009, 10:51 AM   #262
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

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I wish all parents made an informed decision on this subject.
What makes you think that people who do cir'c there boys are not informed???????
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Old 06-17-2009, 11:07 AM   #263
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

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I'm so sorry to bring this thread up again, but I seriously couldn't let this go. I realize that you are banned, but if you happen across this - I hope that someone gives you some education before you actually start to practice. I have seen many cases of "happy tail" through my ten years of experience in the field, you are seriously blowing it out of proportion. I have never seen or heard of a DVM who will recommend tail docking to prevent tail injury later in life. The vast vast vast majority of dogs keep their long tails throughout their entire life with no problem. To recommend that every 2-3 day old puppy have their tail cut of with a dog nail trimmer with no anesthesia, pain medication, or sutures is insane. ( I guess neonates of any species don't feel pain, right ) I do realize that some DVMs will do actual anesthesia and surgery on the puppies, but I have never seen it "done properly" and most are done by breeders now to save cost. You know they don't have any anesthesia available to them. It is NEVER done as a preventative and ALWAYS done as a cosmetic procedure. As far as dewclaws, there have been a few injuries over the years, but honestly I've seen more injuries to the "normal" 4 claws on the foot itself. Again, its purely cosmetic. There are many animal injuries that can result in a "bloodbath" but that doesn't mean that random body parts should be cut off to try to prevent them when the chance of injury on any given pet is very low.

To put it simply - your comment was insulting to think that the veterinary professions can be represented by someone with so little education. Ugh.

OH, and just to keep on topic - YAY foreskin!!
Actually tail docking IS done for none cosmetic reasons...it is rare but does need to be done due to self mutalation or due to tail injuries that are bad enough that they will not heal or did not heal after much treatment. As a certified vet tech (in my past life...as I like to say) we did a few in the couple practics I worked at. Also when we did tail docking on puppies(there was only one practic that I worked at that did it...period...the other practic did no docking or ear cropping) we did give the puppies locals to numb the tails.

And Again de-clawing is mostly done for convence sake...no scratching of humans/stuff...but it is also done for none cosmetic reasons also. My one and only cat I have ever owned had a Genetic Mutation that caused him not to be able to retact his claws on all four paws...so he would actually end up walking on his claws and it caused him extreme pain. At first we thought we could just keep them clipped(like every day clipping) but it wasn't enough to stop the pain and I didn't want him to live his whole life on pain meds. So he was de-clawed on all four paws....and he lived happily every after. OF course he was NEVER allowed outside.

Declaw injuries are something that happen alot mainly in farm/hunting working dogs.

So please don't make blanket statements...because there are ALWAYS exceptions....I don't know how many practics you have worked out or what training you have but you should know that all practics and areas of the country/world are different.
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Old 06-17-2009, 03:17 PM   #264
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

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Actually tail docking IS done for none cosmetic reasons...it is rare but does need to be done due to self mutalation or due to tail injuries that are bad enough that they will not heal or did not heal after much treatment. As a certified vet tech (in my past life...as I like to say) we did a few in the couple practics I worked at. Also when we did tail docking on puppies(there was only one practic that I worked at that did it...period...the other practic did no docking or ear cropping) we did give the puppies locals to numb the tails.

And Again de-clawing is mostly done for convence sake...no scratching of humans/stuff...but it is also done for none cosmetic reasons also. My one and only cat I have ever owned had a Genetic Mutation that caused him not to be able to retact his claws on all four paws...so he would actually end up walking on his claws and it caused him extreme pain. At first we thought we could just keep them clipped(like every day clipping) but it wasn't enough to stop the pain and I didn't want him to live his whole life on pain meds. So he was de-clawed on all four paws....and he lived happily every after. OF course he was NEVER allowed outside.

Declaw injuries are something that happen alot mainly in farm/hunting working dogs.

So please don't make blanket statements...because there are ALWAYS exceptions....I don't know how many practics you have worked out or what training you have but you should know that all practics and areas of the country/world are different.
The previous poster was referring to "preventative" tail docking not treating an existing injury. I don't think declaw surgeries were discussed at all. We were discussing dewclaw surgery. I have worked at a few different animal hospitals with farm/hunting/pet dogs. I know that injuries occur but as I said, the surgeries done on the animals when they are neonates are not to treat an illness (which is why this is being discussed on a circumcision thread). I have seen many more and more severe injuries occur to a dog's 4 main toes than its dewclaw. Any and all areas of an animal can become injured, what I am saying is that recommending that puppies be docked and have their dewclaws removed to prevent non-life threatening injury is ridiculous. For the record, I have a Bachelor's degree in veterinary science technology, have been licensed and working in the field for 11 years. I hope that is sufficient for you . BTW - I'm a little concerned that a certified tech doesn't know the difference between a dewclaw surgery and a declaw surgery.
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Old 06-17-2009, 07:48 PM   #265
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

Whew! I read the whole thread!

Just wanted the throw some more personal experience out there. My DH has a slightly botched circ. The doc cut off too much skin and so it's really tight when he has an erection and he has hair on the lower part of his shaft. You can actually see a scar line about an inch or two down from the head of his penis. It has affected his comfort level with sex and definitely mine. I wish all the time that I could go back in time and convince his mom to not circ him - she was on the fence about it, but decided to since it was common in the area.

Please, please, please don't circumsize your baby boys. Their future wives are pleading with you!
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Old 06-17-2009, 07:56 PM   #266
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

What is the source of this information?
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Old 06-17-2009, 08:00 PM   #267
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

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What makes you think that people who do cir'c there boys are not informed???????
I wouldn't say *all* circ'd boys don't have informed parents, but all in our circle are in that scenario. We asked every.single.parent of a boy that we know and not one had a reason for surgically removing part of their son's penis...they all said "just because everyone does it."

Not a reason for us - we did the research and knew we could NEVER do that to our son. I didn't circ my daughter, I certainly couldn't do it to my son. My husband agrees 100% even though he is circ'd. I think he wishes his parents had thought about it a little more 29 years ago.
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Old 06-17-2009, 09:47 PM   #268
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

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Whew! I read the whole thread!

Just wanted the throw some more personal experience out there. My DH has a slightly botched circ. The doc cut off too much skin and so it's really tight when he has an erection and he has hair on the lower part of his shaft. You can actually see a scar line about an inch or two down from the head of his penis. It has affected his comfort level with sex and definitely mine. I wish all the time that I could go back in time and convince his mom to not circ him - she was on the fence about it, but decided to since it was common in the area.

Please, please, please don't circumsize your baby boys. Their future wives are pleading with you!
I know someone like this. It is unfortunate as it affects both partners.
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Old 06-17-2009, 10:16 PM   #269
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

I have seen and heard of quite a few men who were circed too tight. Unfortunately, I do not know anyone personally (though I do know there are some on this board ) who read through all the info. and made sure the person doing the circ was qualified and specified that they did not want too much taken off. Every.single.person I know IRL who chose to circ did little or no research and did not even talk to the person doing the circ ahead of time to discuss their qualifications and how the circ would be performed, what they did to make sure it was as safe as possible and not too tight, etc.

I think people on this board tend to be more informed on the circ issue. Maybe it is b/c I live in the south? In all honesty, when I had my dd, I had to sign papers ahead of time to have her circed if she turned out to be a boy. I thought about if for all of 3 seconds, and signed the paper! I just figured everyone does it... I am so thankful I learned more about it when preggo with my first son. Also, we had a pediatrician and maternity nurse in our childbirth class who discouraged circs and gave us stats (60/40) on circ vs intact these days. We also watched a circ and b/w all of that and my tidbits of info., my dh (who was formerly super pro-circ) decided no way his sons would be cut.

FTR, I do not believe in attacking people for choosing to circ. It is a part of our culture that is ingrained from several generations of tradition. It is the norm in the US. However, statistics show that circumcision is definitely on the decline, and with health organizations such as WHO and AAP recommending against it, and more people reading the current research, it will continue to decline to the point where intact will be the norm (heck, it already is in some parts of the US- I believe the areas with the highest intact rates are 70% intact vs just 30% circed! Check the link I gave a few pages back...)
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Old 06-18-2009, 08:35 AM   #270
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

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What makes you think that people who do cir'c there boys are not informed???????
I think we feel this way because we can't possibly understand why someone who knows what is involved in the procedure, knows it's painful, knows it's unnecessary, knows all the complications that can result in up to 10% of circs, and knows it's not recommended by any medical organization would still choose to do it.
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