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Old 12-01-2009, 06:36 PM   #361
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

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It takes too long. Circumcisions are done all at once in the morning. The nurses prepare the babies by strapping them down to the circumstraint (a molded plastic tray with straps to tie down the arms and legs.) Then the doctor goes down the line, boom boom boom. Five minutes, tops, for each surgery. Anesthesia takes too long for many doctors to wait. It takes 15-30 minutes for an injectable anesthetic to take effect. Like at the dentist, if you ever get a filling, first they put some numbing cream on the site where they are going to do the injection. They wait for that to take effect (5 minutes or so.) Then they do the actual injection. Then they let you sit in the chair for 15-30 minutes for the anesthetic to kick in. Then they check you for numbness and inject more if needed. Then they drill. Then after that you take some painkillers. This is for your teeth, and you know what is happening, and they stop if you are in pain. Not so for the babies. Even if they get the anesthesia, it doesn't block the vagus nerve which innervates the underside of the penis (only the dorsal nerve which is on the top.) And then they get no pain relief afterward. Surgery is most painful on the day after, and by that point, the baby is peeing and pooping right on the incision wound.
Wow. Thats totally messed up.

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Old 12-02-2009, 07:52 AM   #362
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

When I first began reading this thread I was certain I had nothing to add but I think I do have something small to add.

To the question of "what about when they notice the difference?" and also to the question about those who circ'ed and then stopped. I circ'd my oldest - I had never heard that you could NOT circ. I mean yeah I guess if you have to sign a waiver to have them circ'd that means you could not sign it but it really didn't occur to me. It was just what happened when you had a boy. Thankfully he was a c-section because that meant that in order to fight for a vbac we decided to home birth our 2nd son. And that meant paying for a circ out of pocket. After looking at some circ'ing info online I was appalled and I sobbed several times at that thought of what I had done to my first precious boy. So even though we ended up having a hospital VBAC with number two the decision was already made that we would never circ again. Now my 3rd son is also not circ'd and I will tell you that he looks VERY different from my 2nd who obviously looks different from his oldest brother and his daddy. But they haven't ever noticed. It is what it is. DS 2 has a very loose foreskin - has since birth, whereas DS3 is more what I think non circ'd penis' are "supposed" to look like. So what I'm saying is that even though I didn't circ either of the last two there is still the opening there for them to ask "why does he look different".
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Old 12-02-2009, 01:37 PM   #363
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

I think we as parents focus on the looking different thing too much. Its like why do my boobs look different then my sisters...you know. They arent going to be exactly the same. That is just the way God made it. When they are old enough to understand you can tell them what circumcision is and explain, but in the meantime it looks different because God (or genetics if you are so inclined) made everyone different. If we all looked the same it would be a pretty boring world to look at!

My boys are both intact. I actually left the decision up to DH and his main reason was he had seen some done and didnt want to do that to our kids. Its simply unnecessary.

I havent read this whole thread so forgive if its come up already. I have a friend who is a nurse and she claims that many elderly men get infections because they loose the dexterity in their hands to properly pull back foreskin and clean. It just made me think...anyone else heard of this/seen it...

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Old 12-03-2009, 10:37 AM   #364
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

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Originally Posted by Galatea View Post
Here is a picture of a circumstraint.
That is so barbaric looking! I think in 20-30 years pictures like this will be in museums and history books, and people will use it as an example of "look at what our crazy ancestors did to their babies when they were too helpless to protest". Kind of like twilight sleep and those disturbing photos of how they treated women in labour.

*shudder*
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Old 12-03-2009, 10:50 AM   #365
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

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I havent read this whole thread so forgive if its come up already. I have a friend who is a nurse and she claims that many elderly men get infections because they loose the dexterity in their hands to properly pull back foreskin and clean. It just made me think...anyone else heard of this/seen it...
I call shenanigans. A man will know how to work his penis until the day he dies. And if he can't pull a foreskin back he can't feed himself or get dressed etc and need to be cared for.

Foreskin isn't on all that tight (in most men) it's not like pulling on pantyhose, it's just loose skin! This may be TMI, but I have seen men lay in bed and wiggle and it will retract (with an erection)

The pic of the restraint made my heart break. I can't imagine having to strap a baby in one of those. Even for a medically necessary procedure.
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Old 12-03-2009, 11:02 AM   #366
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

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Originally Posted by mom2LandJ View Post
I havent read this whole thread so forgive if its come up already. I have a friend who is a nurse and she claims that many elderly men get infections because they loose the dexterity in their hands to properly pull back foreskin and clean. It just made me think...anyone else heard of this/seen it...
I used to work in a nursing home after I graduated high school and I'm going to go ahead and share my opinion on this.

*warning, very graphic information discussed*

Ok, first of all, all penises have to be washed. Circed or not, they all need to be washed. Just like women have to wash themselves in that area (women actually have tons more smegma than men make)

Now, this will depend on how tight of a circ a man has, but most circed men are not completely devoid of all foreskin. My husband has a pretty tight circ (I'm basing this on the fact that when he has an erection, his skin "pulls up" skin that is normally not on his penis onto the shaft) But even with him, when flacid there is a small "overlap" of skin surrounding the head. He has to pull back this flap of skin and wash/rinse it in the shower.

Now, the thing with older men. When men get older, the skin in that area gets REALLY loose and saggy, but the tissue making up the penis actually gets smaller. So even men who are circed have all this skin that is "sagging" around their penis. In nursing home populations, it is actually difficult to tell if a man is circed or not, for this reason.
Now, some circed men you can tell. Their sagginess does not reach the tip of their penis, so the tip of the head is exposed a little bit. However, this can actually pose a big problem.
Nursing home people are often in "diapers". I'm very sorry if this information grosses you out, but when an elderly male defecates in his diaper, it usually reaches up beyond his groin. When a man is not circed, or when the skin is loose enough to cover the head, it makes cleaning him up fairly easy...you wipe the flat "tube" of skin on the outside, and nothing gets on the "inside".
However, if the head is exposed, the feces gets onto the head and into the folds of skin surrounding the head. This not only makes cleaning up difficult, but older men have fairly large urethral openings, and the feces can actually travel up the opening and cause infection.
I always HATED cleaning up the circed/glans exposed men. I was only 18 at the time, and knew nothing about babies and stuff, but I already had my mind made up back then that I wouldn't circ for this reason alone.
The non-circed men were just SO much easier to clean up.

Yes, with a circed older man, there may be *less* skin to pull back, but there is probably still skin to pull back because of the sagging issue. And I'm sorry, but simply pulling back the foreskin doesn't take a whole lot of dexterity. It's not like you're going in there with Q-tips or precision maneuvering.


I'm really sorry if I was too "detailed" for you. But I ended up working in various nursing homes for over 5 years doing cares on elderly patients, and I have to totally disagree with what you have heard. As far as UTI's, I have seen both circed and not circed men get them EQUALLY. Elderly people are GOING to get UTI's. It just happens in that age group. And in my experience, cleaning up diapers in intact adults is so much easier than circed ones, especially since you don't have to manipulate anything to clean them for diaper changes (like you would with circed) since normally they are Alzheimer/dementia and they are resisting your cares and wiping around in their glans really pisses them off.
YES, when you give non-circed guys baths, you have to pull back the skin to rinse under. But this takes only seconds, and they are usually sitting in a secure bath chair and they can't really fight your cares.

Again, sorry to go so in depth. But like I said, my experience with nursing home men was actually the first reason I ever decided not to circ a long time before ever having kids.

Last edited by Everywhere; 12-03-2009 at 11:08 AM.
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Old 12-03-2009, 11:17 AM   #367
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

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Originally Posted by Ola_ View Post
That is so barbaric looking! I think in 20-30 years pictures like this will be in museums and history books, and people will use it as an example of "look at what our crazy ancestors did to their babies when they were too helpless to protest". Kind of like twilight sleep and those disturbing photos of how they treated women in labour.

*shudder*
I know

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I just wanted to give a quick update that my baby boy was NOT circ'd!!!! DH *finally* let me make the decision and was supportive of it. So, my little man was the first boy in my side of the famiy to be left intact!!! Hopefully, I've started a new thing!!!!!

I'm SO glad I left him intact and couldn't be happier!!!!

We were just at my brother and his family's house for Thanksgiving and she was shocked we didn't have him circ'd. I ended up leaving her speechless b/c I came back with every "concern" she had with a very good and true answer!

Thanks again for this thread and ALL of the support!!!
Congratulations!!!!! That's awesome! I love your family's response.
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Old 12-03-2009, 11:23 AM   #368
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

Don't be sorry! That was an excellent post! If we are going to talk about cleanliness and infections we need to get into the nitty gritty.

This actually gives me great information to tell those who ask me questions about what will happen when my son is elderly. It makes total sense. If men are getting infections in nursing homes then it is probably because of poor care (not in every case, I mean stuff happens) not because they are circ'd or intact.

I worked in an assisten living home for a while in college, but most of the people were high functioning. Only one man wore diapers and he usually changes himself and took a shower after he pooped so I never had to clean him, just supervise.

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I used to work in a nursing home after I graduated high school and I'm going to go ahead and share my opinion on this.

*warning, very graphic information discussed*

Ok, first of all, all penises have to be washed. Circed or not, they all need to be washed. Just like women have to wash themselves in that area (women actually have tons more smegma than men make)

Now, this will depend on how tight of a circ a man has, but most circed men are not completely devoid of all foreskin. My husband has a pretty tight circ (I'm basing this on the fact that when he has an erection, his skin "pulls up" skin that is normally not on his penis onto the shaft) But even with him, when flacid there is a small "overlap" of skin surrounding the head. He has to pull back this flap of skin and wash/rinse it in the shower.

Now, the thing with older men. When men get older, the skin in that area gets REALLY loose and saggy, but the tissue making up the penis actually gets smaller. So even men who are circed have all this skin that is "sagging" around their penis. In nursing home populations, it is actually difficult to tell if a man is circed or not, for this reason.
Now, some circed men you can tell. Their sagginess does not reach the tip of their penis, so the tip of the head is exposed a little bit. However, this can actually pose a big problem.
Nursing home people are often in "diapers". I'm very sorry if this information grosses you out, but when an elderly male defecates in his diaper, it usually reaches up beyond his groin. When a man is not circed, or when the skin is loose enough to cover the head, it makes cleaning him up fairly easy...you wipe the flat "tube" of skin on the outside, and nothing gets on the "inside".
However, if the head is exposed, the feces gets onto the head and into the folds of skin surrounding the head. This not only makes cleaning up difficult, but older men have fairly large urethral openings, and the feces can actually travel up the opening and cause infection.
I always HATED cleaning up the circed/glans exposed men. I was only 18 at the time, and knew nothing about babies and stuff, but I already had my mind made up back then that I wouldn't circ for this reason alone.
The non-circed men were just SO much easier to clean up.

Yes, with a circed older man, there may be *less* skin to pull back, but there is probably still skin to pull back because of the sagging issue. And I'm sorry, but simply pulling back the foreskin doesn't take a whole lot of dexterity. It's not like you're going in there with Q-tips or precision maneuvering.


I'm really sorry if I was too "detailed" for you. But I ended up working in various nursing homes for over 5 years doing cares on elderly patients, and I have to totally disagree with what you have heard. As far as UTI's, I have seen both circed and not circed men get them EQUALLY. Elderly people are GOING to get UTI's. It just happens in that age group. And in my experience, cleaning up diapers in intact adults is so much easier than circed ones, especially since you don't have to manipulate anything to clean them for diaper changes (like you would with circed) since normally they are Alzheimer/dementia and they are resisting your cares and wiping around in their glans really pisses them off.
YES, when you give non-circed guys baths, you have to pull back the skin to rinse under. But this takes only seconds, and they are usually sitting in a secure bath chair and they can't really fight your cares.

Again, sorry to go so in depth. But like I said, my experience with nursing home men was actually the first reason I ever decided not to circ a long time before ever having kids.
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Old 12-03-2009, 01:06 PM   #369
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

Yes, Thanks, Everywhere! That was very helpful. Just what I was looking for! Not TMI at all...we are all adults here
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Old 12-03-2009, 03:22 PM   #370
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Re: Top ten reasons not to circumcise your son

Quote:
Originally Posted by Everywhere View Post
I used to work in a nursing home after I graduated high school and I'm going to go ahead and share my opinion on this.

*warning, very graphic information discussed*

Ok, first of all, all penises have to be washed. Circed or not, they all need to be washed. Just like women have to wash themselves in that area (women actually have tons more smegma than men make)

Now, this will depend on how tight of a circ a man has, but most circed men are not completely devoid of all foreskin. My husband has a pretty tight circ (I'm basing this on the fact that when he has an erection, his skin "pulls up" skin that is normally not on his penis onto the shaft) But even with him, when flacid there is a small "overlap" of skin surrounding the head. He has to pull back this flap of skin and wash/rinse it in the shower.

Now, the thing with older men. When men get older, the skin in that area gets REALLY loose and saggy, but the tissue making up the penis actually gets smaller. So even men who are circed have all this skin that is "sagging" around their penis. In nursing home populations, it is actually difficult to tell if a man is circed or not, for this reason.
Now, some circed men you can tell. Their sagginess does not reach the tip of their penis, so the tip of the head is exposed a little bit. However, this can actually pose a big problem.
Nursing home people are often in "diapers". I'm very sorry if this information grosses you out, but when an elderly male defecates in his diaper, it usually reaches up beyond his groin. When a man is not circed, or when the skin is loose enough to cover the head, it makes cleaning him up fairly easy...you wipe the flat "tube" of skin on the outside, and nothing gets on the "inside".
However, if the head is exposed, the feces gets onto the head and into the folds of skin surrounding the head. This not only makes cleaning up difficult, but older men have fairly large urethral openings, and the feces can actually travel up the opening and cause infection.
I always HATED cleaning up the circed/glans exposed men. I was only 18 at the time, and knew nothing about babies and stuff, but I already had my mind made up back then that I wouldn't circ for this reason alone.
The non-circed men were just SO much easier to clean up.

Yes, with a circed older man, there may be *less* skin to pull back, but there is probably still skin to pull back because of the sagging issue. And I'm sorry, but simply pulling back the foreskin doesn't take a whole lot of dexterity. It's not like you're going in there with Q-tips or precision maneuvering.


I'm really sorry if I was too "detailed" for you. But I ended up working in various nursing homes for over 5 years doing cares on elderly patients, and I have to totally disagree with what you have heard. As far as UTI's, I have seen both circed and not circed men get them EQUALLY. Elderly people are GOING to get UTI's. It just happens in that age group. And in my experience, cleaning up diapers in intact adults is so much easier than circed ones, especially since you don't have to manipulate anything to clean them for diaper changes (like you would with circed) since normally they are Alzheimer/dementia and they are resisting your cares and wiping around in their glans really pisses them off.
YES, when you give non-circed guys baths, you have to pull back the skin to rinse under. But this takes only seconds, and they are usually sitting in a secure bath chair and they can't really fight your cares.

Again, sorry to go so in depth. But like I said, my experience with nursing home men was actually the first reason I ever decided not to circ a long time before ever having kids.

Thank you. That was fascinating. In all my years as an intactivist, I never heard this, but it makes sense. Exactly the same as in cleaning baby boys - the foreskin actually makes it easier.
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Why you shouldn't circumcise your son
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