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Old 02-18-2009, 04:38 PM   #81
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Re: "Irresponsible" for having more than 2 children

Ohhhh I have to jump in on this thread!!!!

What about my family....
My Mom is a only child of 2 only children so is my Dad(who is dead) I am the oldest of 5. I am the only one that has children(2), my one brother is gay and does not plan on ever having children, my other brother will never be able to have children, my sister was killed in a car accident at 15 so she never had children, & then my youngest brother who is 13(I hope he has 10 kids )

Just because someone is from a big family doesnt mean those children are going to reproduce like rabbits THANK YOU!

Oh then its me who has fertility issues who is blessed to have the 2 we have and would happily welcome in many more and also would love to adopt someday.

Oh and my DH who is the 2nd oldest of 6 adult children(all but one who is a older teen) there is only 3 Grandchildren

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Old 02-18-2009, 04:40 PM   #82
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Re: "Irresponsible" for having more than 2 children

Oh also it makes me sad that I dont have any cousins or Aunts/Uncles I truely envy big familes a house full of love is how I see it
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Old 02-18-2009, 04:44 PM   #83
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Re: "Irresponsible" for having more than 2 children

I don't believe in being told how many children you can have. What if you get pregnant with natural or otherwise triplets or more..going to be forced to reduce? That should be your choice not some gov't. I believe every child is a blessing and should be treated as such from conception! I would never stand behind a gov't that is for telling someone to have an abortion to control the population.
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Old 02-18-2009, 04:47 PM   #84
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Re: "Irresponsible" for having more than 2 children

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Originally Posted by RoxyRocks View Post
Ohhhh I have to jump in on this thread!!!!

What about my family....
My Mom is a only child of 2 only children so is my Dad(who is dead) I am the oldest of 5. I am the only one that has children(2), my one brother is gay and does not plan on ever having children, my other brother will never be able to have children, my sister was killed in a car accident at 15 so she never had children, & then my youngest brother who is 13(I hope he has 10 kids )

Just because someone is from a big family doesnt mean those children are going to reproduce like rabbits THANK YOU!

Oh then its me who has fertility issues who is blessed to have the 2 we have and would happily welcome in many more and also would love to adopt someday.

Oh and my DH who is the 2nd oldest of 6 adult children(all but one who is a older teen) there is only 3 Grandchildren
This post almost made me thing what if you divorce? You may have only had two kids but does that mean ex can't have more and you can't? Just a thought.
I agree just because you have kids doesn't mean they will have any.
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Old 02-18-2009, 05:00 PM   #85
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Re: "Irresponsible" for having more than 2 children

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I believe that we should have a limit on how many children are to be born in a family. I believe after two children, the mother should use birth control of some kind to avoid any more pregnancy. We need to think about future generations, our grand children or great grand children. We have to acknowledge that we are depleting earth's resources, such as oil, water, and earth's mineral. Eventually we will run out if population growth is not slowed down. We currently have 6 billion people in this world, and eventually we will produce so much waste we would not be able to contain it.
You do realize that bc is not 100% effective right? And that those of us who would die using hormonal types are left with even less effective types, right? So, would your scenario say that bc failure means a forced abortion? What about all the "oopses" that would occur if not?

I really don't see how this could ever be a realistic setting.
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Old 02-19-2009, 09:34 AM   #86
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Re: "Irresponsible" for having more than 2 children

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But what about those where procreation is viewed as a mandate from God? If one holds this belief then they cannot limit their household numbers in favor of the environment, especially when they also hold the belief that God will provide. So from their point of view, from their recognition of the absolute truth, others are holding the environment above God. Are they really? Who knows? I am not privy to the absolute truth of the universe. I'm just trying to figure out my little corner for myself.

And for those who do hold such beliefs concerning procreation, it DOES become a religious matter for them when someone attacks them for following their religious beliefs or worse disallowing them to follow them.

So is it right to expect everyone to contribute to caring for the environment in the same way regardless of religious belief?
If people all expect to live on earth and benefit from the environment and its resources, then yes, I think it's reasonable to expect everyone to contribute to its protection. Your right to procreate freely will sooner or later impact on my (and your!) right to potable water, clean air, and space to live - no escaping that.

With respect to the belief that procreation is a mandate from God, I think the commandment made more sense when the earth was less populated and survival rates were low, but in modern times we should reconsider how it should apply. As a species, over the centuries, we've definitely been fruitful and multiplied and replenished the earth, and are now at a stage of overpopulation. Does God want us to continue in this fashion? You're familiar, I'm sure with Joseph, who had 2 sons during the 7 years of plenty, but no additional children during the 7 years of famine. Judaism interprets that to mean that when there is widespread hunger, one should not bring additional children into the world. So I think there is biblical rationale for tempering population growth in response to the realities of the time.

By the way, Jews have the same commandment, but do not consider it to mean that you must procreate endlessly or can't use contraception; you are considered to have fulfilled the commandment once you have one boy and one girl.

Just some food for thought - and thanks for the very engaging debate!
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Old 02-21-2009, 12:31 PM   #87
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Re: "Irresponsible" for having more than 2 children

While I dont agree with this person's point of view...I do have issue with people who have children when they cant support them (i.e. unemployed on welfare, medicaid and foodstamps) and have no intention of getting out of thier current financial situation but yet continue to have children.

Currently I have 2 children that we struggle to support, but we are working and going to school, we hope to be debt free people some day who can afford a comfortable lifestyle instead of depending on government assistance for thinghs like healthcare. In the futre when we are self sufficent, we would be better to adopt an existing child than to conceive another child IMO.
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Old 02-21-2009, 12:36 PM   #88
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Re: "Irresponsible" for having more than 2 children

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Oh also it makes me sad that I dont have any cousins or Aunts/Uncles I truely envy big familes a house full of love is how I see it
Sometimes big families do not equel a house full of love....sometimes favorites are chosen and some get treated less equal than others. Some people are incapable of loving a set of children equally...Some big families work, some do not.
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Old 02-21-2009, 01:20 PM   #89
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Re: "Irresponsible" for having more than 2 children

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If people all expect to live on earth and benefit from the environment and its resources, then yes, I think it's reasonable to expect everyone to contribute to its protection. Your right to procreate freely will sooner or later impact on my (and your!) right to potable water, clean air, and space to live - no escaping that.

With respect to the belief that procreation is a mandate from God, I think the commandment made more sense when the earth was less populated and survival rates were low, but in modern times we should reconsider how it should apply. As a species, over the centuries, we've definitely been fruitful and multiplied and replenished the earth, and are now at a stage of overpopulation. Does God want us to continue in this fashion? You're familiar, I'm sure with Joseph, who had 2 sons during the 7 years of plenty, but no additional children during the 7 years of famine. Judaism interprets that to mean that when there is widespread hunger, one should not bring additional children into the world. So I think there is biblical rationale for tempering population growth in response to the realities of the time.

By the way, Jews have the same commandment, but do not consider it to mean that you must procreate endlessly or can't use contraception; you are considered to have fulfilled the commandment once you have one boy and one girl.

Just some food for thought - and thanks for the very engaging debate!
Although I think you are correct but the more conservative and orthodox Jews think and do different han say a reformed Jewish person.
I am curious as to what you think of Orthodox Hassidic Jews. Here is a interesting article.
http://www.simpletoremember.com/vita...-birthrate.htm

But this brings us to the one major exception to the general rule—namely, Orthodox Jews. Not only do the Orthodox suffer many fewer losses from intermarriage, but their fertility rate is far above the Jewish norm. As against the overall average of 1.86 children per Jewish woman, an informed estimate gives figures ranging upward from 3.3 children in “modern Orthodox” families to 6.6 in Haredi or “ ultra-Orthodox” families to a whopping 7.9 in families of Hasidim. These numbers are, of course, difficult to pin down definitively, but anecdotal evidence is compelling. In a single year, according to a nurse at one hospital in the Lakewood, New Jersey area serving a right-wing Orthodox population, 1,700 babies were born to 5,500 local families, yielding a rate of 358 births per thousand women. (The overall American rate is 65 births per thousand women.)
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