Reply Hey Mom! Learn more about the Gerber Life Insurance Grow-Up Plan!
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-03-2009, 10:20 PM   #21
doodah's Avatar
doodah
Registered Users
seller
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 9,942
Re: Still waking every two hours to eat

Natty-

I do agree that a mom should be informed. I was just wanting to put the thought out there that a new mom should be careful about what she implements with her own children. There is no way you could follow every "experts" advice....that was my main point. Like I said, I did not read the article. My breast feeding days are over for now and I don't need articles to make me feel bad about what I could have or should have done. I will reiterate that I think each mom should fine what is best for their child. I am sure there are moms that use formula to get there baby to sleep through the night and have a variety of reasons for doing so. I never had to make that choice so I am certainly not going to judge a mom that does. I do think there could be a very good reason for doing this (although, like anything, it is probably abused by some parents for their own convenience). It was nice of mamas here to offer up advice of all sorts so the OPs have many things to consider.

Advertisement

doodah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2009, 11:38 PM   #22
NATTYBATSMOM's Avatar
NATTYBATSMOM
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: La Crosse, WI
Posts: 5,725
My Mood:
Re: Still waking every two hours to eat

Quote:
Originally Posted by doodah View Post
Natty-

I do agree that a mom should be informed. I was just wanting to put the thought out there that a new mom should be careful about what she implements with her own children. There is no way you could follow every "experts" advice....that was my main point. Like I said, I did not read the article. My breast feeding days are over for now and I don't need articles to make me feel bad about what I could have or should have done. I will reiterate that I think each mom should fine what is best for their child. I am sure there are moms that use formula to get there baby to sleep through the night and have a variety of reasons for doing so. I never had to make that choice so I am certainly not going to judge a mom that does. I do think there could be a very good reason for doing this (although, like anything, it is probably abused by some parents for their own convenience). It was nice of mamas here to offer up advice of all sorts so the OPs have many things to consider.
This is one of the things that really bugs me. It's perfectly acceptable for people to come in and give advice that would ultimately sabotage this mother's breastfeeding relationship (and YES, some of the advice could do that) but when I present information that shows that this advice could be potentially harmful, respectfully, I might, everyone rushes over to discredit the information I post. I really don't get that. I never flamed the anyone on here, merely disagreed with some of the advice that could potentially make the situation worse, not better. I'm sorry you are feeling guilt but you should not give any article the power to do that and avoiding reading an article with crucial information because you don't want to feel guilty is definitely doing that. I have not always made the best decisions, I made decisions that at the time were the best decision I could make with the information I had at hand. I ended up having a cesarean. My daughter DID get an ounce of formula her first day of life and it ticks me off. I don't feel guilty though, I'm MAD! I'm mad because we DID try to fight and were told that our choices were THAT or NICU with an IV in her forehead. Boy, those nurses sure now how to make you do what they want you to do. So, we picked what was the lesser of two evils. Now, we COULD have fought that more, we could have insisted on a different test, there were other things that could have been done that I found out later about. But at the time, we didn't know. I know this information now. We did the best we could at that time and at least insisted that no bottles be used, just a syringe. And it's VERY possible (considering some of the other crap they did the five days I was there) that she got more formula than that but I don't know.

I know this information now and knowing this information, I feel responsible in sharing that information. What the mom decides to do with that information is HER business and HER choice. She's the mom. BUT, I strongly feel that the a decision cannot be made without knowing all of the information and there is a LOT of truth to the problems with formula and that even a little bit can cause issues. NOT for everyone but it was definitely the case in my family. Formula has caused ALL kinds of issues for my niece and nephews and my youngest niece would have been the next in line but my sister, upon seeing what it was doing to her daughter, made the choice to relactate. She had stopped because she didn't have all of the information and yeah, I was kind of mad at her NOT because she gave up but because she didn't call me, she didn't call lactation and the problem she was having was one that easily could have been fixed.

Ultimately, I want to help this mother. I want to give her all of the support and resources I possibly can. She may use that to help her continue or she may decide that it's just too much. That's a choice only she can make but I will do everything I can to address her issues with something more than, "Oh, it's okay to give up, just give the baby formula or cereal, or food." Sorry, that just doesn't fly with me.

I struggled for the first 14 WEEKS with my daughter. I was SEVERELY sleep deprived when I finally left the hospital. I was in pain for those first 14 weeks. I couldn't nurse laying down AT ALL so forget co-sleeping and I couldn't co-sleep because I still had pain in my leg from her being on it the last month of pregnancy. I slept in our master bedroom by myself and my husband slept in a twin bed in our daughter's room. He helped me MANY a night with sleep and even gave her a bottle of expressed breastmilk here and there until I finally got over that pain and could nurse her laying down. He bounced her on the exercise ball. He slept with her on the twin bed. He would bounce with her in the bassinet, he would be one of my t-shirts in with her. He tried all kinds of things and when NOTHING else worked, then brought her in to nurse. He was very much determined for me to breastfeed and did everything in his power to make that happen. Now, maybe the OP doesn't have that supportive a husband. I understand that. It happens. I know I'm VERY VERY lucky to have had a husband who hated formula much more than I ever will (because I DO see a place for it). I didn't always appreciate it though. I even threatened him with a vacuum hose because I was in so much pain.

What didn't help? People telling me to give up. That just made me mad. I left groups because of it. Even the lactation consultant told me to give up! I just looked at her and said simply, "That's not an option." She really couldn't help me after that because she had reached the end of her own resources. It took joining an EXTENDED nursing group to get the help I needed. It took talking to a mom who said, "Yeah, I've been there, you're going to be just fine, once I got through the 15th week, it was smooth sailing." And it was, just exactly as she said. I got REAL help, real suggestions and I was SO grateful for that because I did not want to give up. I did not want to hear that it was okay if I gave up before for me, it wasn't! Hearing it was okay to give up was not acceptable when I was going through thrush and nipple blanching, and everything else. Hearing it was going to get better, getting resources and advice on how to keep going, THOSE helped. It wasn't the naysayers who helped me get to 39 MONTHS of breastfeeding and counting. It was my husband and moms who had been there, done that who did.

And if the OP gives up or does give formula to help with sleep, that's her choice. But it will at least be a choice she makes knowing all of the information behind it. Whether you believe that information is correct or not has nothing to do with her. SHE has to be the one to make that decision but I feel it is my duty to at least give her that information. I'm not going to let anyone else's guilt keep me from doing that. And, if you made the best choice you could make at the time with the information you had, you shouldn't feel guilty. We're parents but we're also human. We make mistakes and we definitely make mistakes with our kids. We also learn from them and move on. All guilt does is keep us from moving on. And sometimes, it can lead us to bring others down with us so that we don't feel as guilty. I'm responsible of this one too. It's something everyone does to some degree but that doesn't mean it's healthy. Own up to the choice you make and move on.
__________________
Janeen
Mom to Natalie (12/27/05) , and Isabelle (7/20/10)
I've taken The Mom Pledge, have you?
My Blog: Sipping Life One Day at a Time
NATTYBATSMOM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2009, 08:21 AM   #23
Treasures Of Mine's Avatar
Treasures Of Mine
Registered Users
seller
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: New England
Posts: 4,277
My Mood:
Re: Still waking every two hours to eat

Sorry, Mama, I know you posted this tread for some support and hugs...so This too shall pass....And as for everything else said...you do what's best for YOU and your baby...

And now if I were you, I'd delete this thread, and unsubscribe to it....
__________________
I'm Kati, lover to my DH and a busy SAHM to 5 under 10 THEN...
June 15th my life changed forever with the natural birth of identical TWIN boys Judah Legend (6lbs 3) and Zion Israel (5lbs 14)
Treasures Of Mine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2009, 08:51 AM   #24
NATTYBATSMOM's Avatar
NATTYBATSMOM
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: La Crosse, WI
Posts: 5,725
My Mood:
Re: Still waking every two hours to eat

Just wanted to add, Dr. Sears has some VERY good information on sleep and the infant. Here's part of what he says that I think refers to part of the problem you are having:

Quote:
How you sleep. After dressing or undressing for bed, most adults help themselves relax for sleep by performing various bedtime rituals: reading, listening to music, watching TV, or having sex. As you drift into sleep, your higher brain centers begin to rest; enabling you to enter the stage of deep sleep called "non-REM" (non-rapid eye movement -- NREM), or deep sleep (also called quiet sleep). Your mind and body are quietest during this stage of sleep. Your body is still, your breathing is shallow and regular, your muscles are loose, and you're really "zonked." After about an hour and a half in this quiet sleep stage, your brain begins to "wake up" and start working, which brings you out of your deep sleep and into light sleep or active sleep, called rapid eye movement or "REM" sleep. During this stage of sleep your eyes actually move under your eyelids as your brain exercises. You dream and stir, turn over, and may even adjust the covers without fully awakening. It is during this sleep stage that you may fully awaken to go to the bathroom, then return to bed and fall back into a deep sleep. These alternating cycles of light and deep sleep continue every couple hours throughout the night, so that a typical adult may spend an average of six hours in quiet sleep and two hours in active sleep. Thus, you do not sleep deeply all night, even though you may feel as though you do.

How babies enter sleep. You're rocking, walking, or nursing your baby and her eyelids droop as she begins to nod off in your arms. Her eyes close completely, but her eyelids continue to flutter and her breathing is still irregular. Her hands and limbs are flexed, and she may startle, twitch, and show fleeting smiles, called "sleep grins." She may even continue a flutter-like sucking. Just as you bend over to deposit your "sleeping" baby in her crib so you can creep quietly away, she awakens and cries. That's because she wasn't fully asleep. She was still in the state of light sleep when you put her down. Now try your proven bedtime ritual again, but continue this ritual longer (about twenty more minutes). You will notice that baby's grimaces and twitches stop; her breathing becomes more regular and shallow, her muscles completely relax. Her fisted hands unfold and her arms and limbs dangle weightlessly. Martha and I call this "limp-limb" sign of deep sleep. Baby is now in a deeper sleep, allowing you to put her down and sneak away, breathing a satisfying sigh of relief that baby is finally resting comfortably.
NIGHTTIME PARENTING LESSON #1:
Babies need to be parented to sleep, not just put to sleep. Some babies can be put down while drowsy yet still awake and drift

others need parental help by being rocked or nursed to sleep.

The reason is that while adults can usually go directly into the state of deep sleep, infants in the early months enter sleep through an initial period of light sleep. After twenty minutes or more they gradually enter deep sleep, from which they are not so easily aroused. As you probably know from experience, if you try to rush your baby to bed while she is still in the initial light sleep period, she will usually awaken. Many parents tell me: "My baby has to be fully asleep before I can put her down." In later months, some babies can enter deep sleep more quickly, bypassing the lengthy light sleep stage. Learn to recognize your baby's sleep stages. Wait until your baby is in a deep sleep stage before transitioning her from one sleeping place to another, such as from your bed to a crib or from carseat to bed or crib.
If you are interested in reading more, go here:
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/7/T070200.asp

Sleep issues are definitely not fun. I know for our family we really just had to work at being flexible which was not always easy. Fortunately, I had a husband who can fall asleep at the drop of a hat which was why I had him help out with those difficult night times a lot. I do not sleep well AT ALL. It takes me a long time to fall asleep and I don't sleep well even when I'm asleep. I'm prone to nightmares and even the occasional night terror so believe me, I definitely feel for you. I wanted to KILL people in the hospital because they kept waking my daughter up while I was there recovering from my cesarean. My husband worked overnights then and couldn't help me during that week (he lost his job about a week after we came home from the hospital) and it was a NIGHTMARE and YES, I was tempted to stop breastfeeding. Still, it CAN be done where all get sleep and the baby gets her night needs met, it just sometimes takes a little juggling. And it DOES get better!

I'll shut up now and offer this, PM me if you have any questions or just want more information. Because right now, without any responses from you, I can't be sure. I'm also in South Korea and therefore 14 hours ahead and usually online the hours most people are asleep. Feel free to PM me if you need any help.

WHATEVER you decide, I wish you the best of luck and more sleep for both you and your little one. (((HUGS)))
__________________
Janeen
Mom to Natalie (12/27/05) , and Isabelle (7/20/10)
I've taken The Mom Pledge, have you?
My Blog: Sipping Life One Day at a Time
NATTYBATSMOM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2009, 07:15 PM   #25
doodah's Avatar
doodah
Registered Users
seller
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 9,942
Re: Still waking every two hours to eat

Yikes! I wasn't trying to flame in the slightest! Sounds like you went thru quite a journey with breastfeeding so kudos for hanging in there. Doesn't change my mind about about what I posted though. Let's just agree to disagree on some parts of this discussion. I believe we are both trying to offer different perspectives to the OP and hopefully, she has plenty of food for thought on her decision. Again, it sounds like you were a trooper with breastfeeding but that choice is not one every person is willing or able to make. I don't believe that I am being a naysayer in truly wanting to support WHATEVER decision the OP makes but again, I am happy to agree to disagree on that as well.
doodah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2009, 07:38 PM   #26
Jaci's Avatar
Jaci
Registered Users
seller
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Moorhead, MN
Posts: 1,680
My Mood:
Re: Still waking every two hours to eat

Hey mama, I'm going to avoid responding to the rest of this thread and try to keep what you asked in my head. (although I think NATTYBATSMOM has great advice and wonderful points).

First I should say that I will never ever advocate CIO for a baby that young, even the Doc who advises to CIO says babies that young are not supposed to. Second, are you breastfeeding? I didn't see that in your original post. I'm going to post my advice on the assumption that you are. If not, then my advice obviously won't work for you!

Do you notice that your LO has green poop? Has your LO either lost weight rapidly or gained weight rapidly?

I would suggest looking up oversupply/fore & hindmilk imbalance/overactive letdown on kellymom.com

That occurs when you have an abundance of foremilk (the early watery milk that comes first during a nursing session) that lets down super fast and fills baby's stomach. The foremilk does not keep baby full for very long so baby wants to nurse very shortly afterward and the cycle continues. You often can tell this is happening by seeing green poopy diapers, having baby eat very little very often, and by weight loss or weight gain.

I hope this helps you! Good luck mama, I think we have all been there!
__________________
Jaci : wife to Chris : sahm to Connor, 10/25/2007 C/S : Graeme, 11/30/2009 VBAC
Tiny Sprout Photo : PeaceLoveBirth : Our Family Blog : My Ravelry
Jaci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2009, 09:23 PM   #27
jacquelinemarie82's Avatar
jacquelinemarie82
Registered Users
sitesupporter
seller
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 9,143
My Mood:
Re: Still waking every two hours to eat

There has been lots of advice given so far that will really give the op some great resources to help her make her decision. Good luck to you as you decide to do what is best for your family.
I am sensitive to the term "giving up" or terms like that. Mama, don't feel that you are giving up by trying to look at or try a variety of options to do what is best for YOUR baby. Sounds like formula feeding is a very sensitive topic here on DS. Just because you formula feed does not mean that you don't have your family's and your baby's best interest in mind.
Also, I don't think that mama Doodah was saying she felt guilt over any choices she made especially concerning feeding. I think she was saying that she looked at the options, made the best choice for her situation, and does not regret what she did even if it did involve a choice that not all mamas would agree with. (And when in the world do we all agree here on DS anyway? ) I think mama Doodah was saying that once the choice was made she DID move on and by reading the articles against using formula, the article would imply that by choosing to use formula a mama makes the wrong choice which for her was not the case and may not be for the op either.

OP, have you checked into bfing groups in your area or possibly the lactation consultant at your hospital would be able to give you some advice? Sounds like you would like to continue bfing if possible. If it is not working for you though, maybe the mamas in the formula feeding forum have more thoughts or have been in the same situation as you.
jacquelinemarie82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Copyright 2005 - 2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.