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Old 04-10-2009, 08:08 AM   #11
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Re: Question for AP moms...where do you "draw the line" or is there one?

I am also curious about how moms can apply the AP principles during the preschool years. I hear a lot about applying principles during the baby years but what about a child almost 4 as the op stated?

This mom sounds like she has changed a lot since you first knew her. However, if she is letting go of herself and her relationships, then I say you just have to let go as well. She may be fine with how things are. OR she may not be but may not be willing or able to make changes right now. It is hard to see good friendships fizzle, but people change when they have children and sometimes those changes include the priority they put on spending time with old friends.

It is unfortunate that her daughter is making other people not want to be around her and her mom. If the mom is okay with that, then other people will have to be. I have seen an ap mom with a sweet, confident kid and then I have seen an ap mom with a kid that won't go to anyone or socialize with anyone and throws huge fits in public AND at home. It is the parent's choice how they raise the child and if this little girl is a terror to everyone that knows her than there is really nothing you can do.

You can be supportive to her even though she is not interested in maintaining friendships right now. She will need that support some day even if she doesn't today.

I think this mom might just be overwhelmed or possibly might think that by neglecting herself she is being a better mom.

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Old 04-10-2009, 08:18 AM   #12
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Re: Question for AP moms...where do you "draw the line" or is there one?

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Originally Posted by ~Ryleigh's_Momma~ View Post
It sounds like she is going extreme. I consider myself to be pretty schooled on AP (got the books, attended the support groups, practice it myself, etc) and one big thing that pops out at me is the 7th B-- BALANCE
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Old 04-10-2009, 08:37 AM   #13
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Re: Question for AP moms...where do you "draw the line" or is there one?

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Originally Posted by Terra View Post
We sound very much alike in this aspect!
me too .

I consider myself an AP parent for the most part and what you are describing does not sound like AP. My son is only 6 months old (he is my first) and is pretty comfortable going to diff kinds of people. I usually let him decide if he wants to be carried by an adult (sometimes he allows it sometimes he doesn't) only time I would pass him to an adult w/o my son initiating it would be if there is an emergency or I really need to go to the bathroom. He rarely cries, is good natured, and has stayed with my inlaws for 4hrs with very little crying (sometimes when I keep him from his naps by taking him out of the car and in he gets cranky).

He is progressing just fine and seems healthy. I got criticize a lot (by family) at first but I am already seen the emotional payout which makes me even more committed to the principles that have been working for us thus far. My in laws are impressed with how well behaved he is. The majority of my friends do practice ap, still go on vacation, we even went hiking with our LOs, go to the museum, and restaurants etc. Their children are similar to mine in temperament.

LIke a previous post mentioned, she might just be happy that way. in my opinion it sounds more like she might be suffering from depression and wanting to keep her child a baby a little longer. It doesn't sound healthy but to each their own.
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Old 04-10-2009, 01:18 PM   #14
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Re: Question for AP moms...where do you "draw the line" or is there one?

wow.

reading that makes me wonder if I am AP lol

me....

Breastfeeding(self wean)
Baby wearing/toddler wearing
no spanking(we time out)
home schooling
co-sleeping
cloth diapering(I dont think thats AP right?)
delay and select vax(is that AP?)


now I will say Im sure not wearing makeup or nice clothes has anything to do with AP but I will say I do not wear make up by choice, and I dont have great clothes Im not hip to the jive, more hippie with a side of I cant afford all the awesome hippie clothes I see.


p.s. I forgot to add- I did not AP my daughter at all until she was 1 and she is super shy. I started my DS right away with the AP and he is more out going than any child I have ever seen. He is a mamas boy and doesnt sleep threw the night but he is so social and active and just a great kid ... oh my DD is a daddys girl but when she is upset she needs her mama and she is upset alot.
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Old 04-10-2009, 01:35 PM   #15
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Re: Question for AP moms...where do you "draw the line" or is there one?

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thanks for the thoughts ladies! I tried to express what I was thinking as clearly as I could but I am sure you all understand that sometimes things don't come out quite as clear as they are meant too.

brennama-you had some really great insights although much of this seemed relavent to a baby whereas her daughter is 4. This is interesting thought though because she treats her like a baby in many ways and just never seemed to progress past the AP principles that would apply to an infant. Her daughter is still just as needy, etc. as a one year old would be.
ooopps. how did I miss the part where she is four ? While some of what I said still applies very much as explaining AP principles, I agree with you...its as though she did not progress past the principles that apply to an infant and is holding both herself & her child back. Her reasoning for that? Who knows. Maybe she's scared to let her little one grow up and just can't let go. Or (more than likely this one in my opinion) she just doesn't know how to expand those AP principles and move on to using them with an older child. It also doesn't sound like she has really researched the concept of AP'ing, but more is just doing what she *thinks* it is. In my experience, its MUCH easier to use AP principles with a baby than a toddler...they test our limits each and every day out of their own curiosity and nature and it is hard to keep patience and be consistent day in and day out, regardless of the type of parenting style you have. She does sound somewhat depressed, and perhaps its compounded by the fact that her child is so challenging. She just sounds overwhelmed and is taking the brunt of it all on herself...like you mentioned, noboby wants to watch her little one because she acts this way, but the woman sounds like she just needs a break.
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Old 04-10-2009, 01:38 PM   #16
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Re: Question for AP moms...where do you "draw the line" or is there one?

I consider myself to be AP and I just wanted to say that OF COURSE there are boundaries!! Not accusing you, OP, but it's a little annoying that in general, many believe no boundaries = AP. Maybe I'll come back later and expand, but right now I'm typing on my cell phone and that IS annoying!!!
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Old 04-10-2009, 01:54 PM   #17
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Re: Question for AP moms...where do you "draw the line" or is there one?

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Okay...a few things in particular stood out to me and I can give my insight on it...we consider ourselves to be very AP....and honestly, I'm struggling right now. I think there are other issues as well, but a lot of it is cumulating with my parenting, but that happens to parents that use any "style" of parenting, not just AP. I'm having a lot of doubts and get a LOT of criticism from family. But in the end, I KNOW and hubby knows that we are doing what is right for us as a family and are parenting the best way we know how. That said...

I don't think its necessarily a matter of sacrificing everything, but more like adapting to parenthood in a different way than some others may. WE personally go all kinds of places with our children...if their behavior is not appropriate for their age & the setting, then we give a warning. If the behavior continues, then we leave. We follow through on our discipline warnings...that is a BIG thing for us, and I see parents of all parenting styles that don't do this and then wonder why discipline isn't working for them DS has grown to be able to be comforted by both me & daddy...but he definitely has preferences depending on what type of comfort he needs...if its wounded pride or hurt feelings, he's running to momma....if he's hurt, 95% of the time, he'll pick daddy if he's available. DD on the other hand...she's a momma's girl through and through BUT I think a lot of it has to do with her age and the fact that she is still mostly breastfeeding...its definitely a comfort object-type thing for her. We don't see it as being at the mercy of our children's mood on whether we go places or not, but I'm not going to drag my kids out and about if I know that they are tired & crabby and are going to misbehave because of this...its like I'm trying to set them up for punishment and myself up for frustration. Our children don't run our schedule by any means, but we DO take them into consideration when scheduling things...they aren't just accessories we pack along regardless of how they feel (and I don't think you're implying that either btw). As for not showering because baby was crabby all day....every mom I've ever known, AP or not, has had at least one or two days like that...I just chalk it up as part of parenthood. Our children's needs are a priority to us and they are always considered when making decisions of any type. They are part of our family and are human beings...their feelings are just as important as ours. We try to do what is best for us as a FAMILY, not as the parents and too bad so sad if the kids don't like it. Obviously our opinions are what sway all of the decisions...I'm not going to give my 3 year old executive decision on which home we buy...but considering how he will feel in the situation of moving to a new home...considering how I think he will do in the school district...trying to find a family friendly neighborhood...that is how we take him into consideration. I don't put my children over my husband or vice versa. Everybody's needs and wants are taken seriously and are accomodated within reason whenever possible. How does AP affect my life outside of being a mom? Honestly? I'm one of those people that don't see it as "life outside of being a mom". Being a mother isn't something that is just part of my life...it IS my life. Its who I am. Its not a switch I can turn on and off whenever its convenient to me or others around me. I can go out with my friends and comfortably talk about anything, children included...but our conversations don't have to revolve around our children either. I can go do my own thing, but I'm always thinking of my children & hubby...I would find it weird if I didn't. I think a big part of being AP is just natural...you can't FORCE yourself to be AP...its just what comes to you...just like other parenting styles are what come naturally to other people. Its not a fad I follow because its cool. Its something that I was doing before I even knew it had a name. To us, its just what comes completely natural and the principles involved with it are what come to mind when we hear about "good parenting".


This sounds more like PPD than something that is caused by being AP. Or it may just not be that her priorities are not the same as other people's after having her little one. Not everybody reacts to becoming a parent the same. Not all of us find wearing makeup to be an everyday necessity to get by. Perhaps she hasn't lost all of her baby weight, but is confident she will and doesn't want to waste money on buying inbetween clothes. Maybe she just doesn't care about losing weight right now. Perhaps money is tighter than she wants to let on. Maybe she is just exhausted and doesn't have time to do laundry or clean...she'd rather sleep when baby sleeps and take advantage of this time to bond with her little one instead of cleaning house. Maybe she's just so enamored with this little one that nothing else matters to her right now. Everybody reacts differently. For example...I wouldn't dream of leaving our kiddos with anyone overnight unless absolutely necessary. My sister prides herself in the fact that her LO has been spending the night away from home since 3 days old so that she can have "mommy time". We take our kids on dates with us and both of us love it. My sister's LO is 3 months old and she still refuses to go to a restaurant with her hubby with baby in tow. Our ideas of "mommy & daddy time" are completely different. I couldn't give two craps less about wearing makeup or doing my hair or having the newest clothes...its just not a priority. If she doesn't have her hair done every few weeks (highlights, color, perm, cut..something) or her nails done or new clothes for every 3 lbs lost, its OMG I'm losing myself. We have different parenting styles & different priorities.

The whole "spoiled" concept is usually a source of ...debate...between AP and non-AP parents. Most non-AP parents see these babies as spoiled because they won't go to anyone, anytime. Most AP parents don't believe you can "spoil" a baby. A big principle of AP is that babies cry for a reason. They don't cry to manipulate you, especially when they are younger than six months. Its the only way they know how to communicate. Sorry if its annoying to people that the little one is crying...but its for a reason. I mean, really...would you want to cry until your head and stomach hurt from sobbing so much just for fun? Of course not. They are trying to get a point across and yes, it sucks when we as parents can't understand what they need and / or want. BUT its our responsibility as parents to try to figure it out and resolve the issue. In the first few months of life, momma is who that baby knows as their source of comfort & food (especially when breastfeeding, because, well duh, guys don't have boobs ). We spent nine months nurturing them in our bodies and its US that they know...they naturally want to be close to us, its just the way they are made. They don't come into the world thinking "oh, well mommy is great for feeding me, but I HAVE to be able to go to grandma and grandpa and auntie and uncle and mommy's BFF because mommy needs a break every once in a while" Its something that has to be taught...a lot of AP parents just don't teach that or force that experience as early on as many non-AP parents because we see those first few months as a big bonding time for mommy & daddy & baby. Heck, we've been accused of "not letting our family get to know" our kids because they don't spend the night away from home. How is spending the night away from home going to make it easier to get to know them? You can get to know a child just as well with the parent around as you can with them not around. Its simply a matter of US seeing our children as our responsibility to care for, not our family's responsibility. My dad shouldn't have to be concerned with changing diapers, feeding babies, and chasing a toddler because he HAS to...because I've left them with him and essentially left him with no choice but to care for them. If he wants to change them, feed them, and chase them, that's great....he can do it while I'm there...and if he doesn't feel like it, he can hand them off to me, their mother, the person ultimately responsible for said actions and care. All in all...in my experience especially, coming from a very non-AP family, I find it to be just a completely different mindset and interpretation of the responsibility of parenthood.

I love you lol! like I could read that over and over it makes me smile, Im so glad you responded.
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Old 04-10-2009, 02:07 PM   #18
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Re: Question for AP moms...where do you "draw the line" or is there one?

Our parenting styles are similar. With two babies at once, some of these things I've read on here are just not practical for us. I also have a very involved extended family, so my children are with other people besides us. Anyhoo, I know moms very similar to what you described who would not have a clue what I was talking about if I told them they were AP. I think some women are just like that, honestly.
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Old 04-10-2009, 06:12 PM   #19
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Re: Question for AP moms...where do you "draw the line" or is there one?

I'm okay with everything with your post except the label of "spoiled" as this is one thing I hate to hear from non-AP parents about children who are raised in attached environent.

The child may be "spoiled" but is probably just high needs and the mom hasn't found a way to balance the needs of the child with the mom's needs (and it can be difficult if the people closest to her tell her she is spoiling her child rather than supporting her in finding an outlet for her child who has the needs)
Many may say that I let myself go but you know, I feel I've gained more than I lost. Some of the "things" i worried about before were very much "for show" more than anything. While Viveka is still young, and we have more to grow within AP, I'm proud of who I am now, even if I don't get to shower as often as I "should" and if I hardly wear make up. I try to ensure I have that last b "BALANCE" but you know, I'd prefer to give up that a bit more than the bonding. She'll only be a kid once, only want to snuggle for so long and so why not give up a bit to have that?

I waited to become a parent until I was secure with the decision, becuase there is no going back. If I wanted to worry about the latest in adult fashion, what make up was best and what movies came out still, then I'd probably have chosen to wait longer. It isn't that we don't WANT baby sitters, we just do not want someone to consider our child spoiled because she's only 13 months old and developmentally she can't handle some of the things that some other adult expect of her (like wanting to eat certian foods, not expect to be held or be put in front of television to prevent her from being "needy"). If I knew that the person was able to handle her for who she is, that they wouldn't shame her, and that she was comfortable, then yes... I'd get a sitter, but right now, since most of the people I know could and would treat her like we do also have young kids who need attention, we get fewer nights out, but we get a lot of great time as a family
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Old 04-10-2009, 06:24 PM   #20
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Re: Question for AP moms...where do you "draw the line" or is there one?

As far as makeup and clothes....the op seemed to state that that mama USED to wear makeup and doesn't anymore and she USED to look more presentable but now she is literally wearing clothes that are dirty and too small due to her weight gain. The op was not criticizing the weight but rather saying that this mama wasn't taking care of herself and not even wearing clean clothes in her size. That is going pretty far imo. The op was not suggesting you have to have the latest styles or be dressed to impress at all times but I would think most mamas would want to wear clean clothes that fit.
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