Question for AP moms...where do you "draw the line" or is there one?

[l_Kimmie_l]

I cannot say I am an AP or not. I am a mom in general. I have 2 children and 1 on the way. All boys. Night and day they are. I had the perfect STTN, easy going, mellow baby the 1st time. The kind of kid that everyone wants to have come over as he is just naturally seen and not heard. Still to this day he is an amazing young man. This is who he is, not what we made him. Then we had Rory, who is an extremely difficult lil guy. He screams, whines, tantrums, and is the exact opposite of his brother. We adore him. He is a high needs boy. He wants Mommy ALL the time, just got out of a phase were daddy was not even good enough. He slept with us till he was 9 months and BF till then too - I dried up. I cannot get into the shower w/o a sitter or DH helping as he HATES water and screams. Some days I do not bother to bathe (I wash up in the sink) as I am way too tired. I am tired as he will not sleep through the night. He will no longer co-sleep in our bed. He sleeps till 2 AM in his PNP and then has to sleep on me in the chair the rest of the night. Rory has become a bit more independant as we work with him at his pace to help him know he is loved and safe.


We do not feel our son is spoiled or even understands what he asks of us. He has no idea that I would love to sleep with my DH and make love to him in our bed. That sleeping 20 weeks PG in a recliner holding a 20 lb boy is not comfortible. Why do I do it? Why not let him CIO? We beleive that there are battles to be picked when it comes to child rearing. CIO does nothing for Rory but make him worse. If I want to sleep or have peace then I pick what works for Rory and try to work as he will tolerate on helping him sleep better etc. I do what I do because Rory needs me and it my job to fulfill those needs. BUT - big BUT - he also is being taught that Rory's wants are not always needs and that other people have needs/wants too. Rory whines constantly if you do not allow him to use your finger to walk. Even in a walker he does this. We walk him and play for a few hours and then Rory has to learn that Mommy can have Mommy time and still love and be there for Rory.

I am a believer that parents try to work with their children the best they can. That every child responds to things different. It sounds as if your freind has not set clear boundaries, has lost her self a bit, and is drained. A high needs child is very hard to deal with and can be harder when you have no support. She may be hiding behind the "AP" label as a way to explain her situation. I had a freind who claimed the same till it was pointed out to her that AP was not what she was doing. Then it came out she was depressed and tired. I would speak to your friend and ask if she could use help. PPD can last a lifetime for some women if they are never treated. She thought that "giving in" was "AP" and used it as an excuse as her DD was not behaving. It was easier for her to tell people she did not beleive in such and such that try to fix the problem. A four year old high needs girl who knows no limits scares me! I would try to get her some information about how to parent an older child the attached way. There is discipline involved. Most parents teach cause and effect along with consequences. It is a very gentle, but can work very well over time if used consistantly. Your friend, IMO, also needs to warm up to the idea that her DD may need other parenting forms as well. Not all children respond to the same things.

[doodah]

great insights ladies! actually this is really great to have a variety of opinions so again, thanks for all the posts. as for my term "spoiled"....let me expand. She does not have a daily routine except what her daycare provider has put in place (this is a new development and I know they don't do the same things at home with her), she does not have a bedtime (we are talking staying up till midnight or past because it is too much of a battle to get her in bed), she eats whatever she wants (again, too much for mom to fight with for a balanced diet), she used to throw major tantrums (recently gotten better thanks to her daycare's boundaries), she will not speak to another adult if she doesn't want too and her parents do not regularly enforce basic manners (please, thank you, excuse me), she is sort of hit and miss on playing with other kids (she likes to have the adult's attention on just her and can be very bossy with any kids that will play with her), she is rarely required to dress in an appropriate or safe manner (she wears short little skirts even in the dead of winter).....basically I don't see any boundaries really at all. Her babysitter is a really patient and experienced care giver and I know for a fact that she is MUCH better behaved at daycare. IMO she is not high needs because she can clearly control herself and understand the boundaries within different environments. It is just a shame that her mom cannot enjoy this side of her personality. She is a smart little kid and capable of much more than her parents ask of her.

[NATTYBATSMOM]

Originally Posted by doodah as for my term "spoiled"....let me expand. She does not have a daily routine except what her daycare provider has put in place (this is a new development and I know they don't do the same things at home with her)

Natalie has never had a schedule either. But neither do I and my husband has never had the same schedule more than a year out of over three now. Not being on a schedule has actually been a good thing, otherwise, we would not have gotten through all of these transitions from where we used to live and South Korea. I know some kids who absolutely cannot handle changes AT ALL and have a meltdown if ANYTHING in the schedule is even remotely off, this would NEVER have worked in my family because from the get go, things have changed constantly. I mean, we even changed time zones and went 14 hours ahead!

Originally Posted by doodah she does not have a bedtime (we are talking staying up till midnight or past because it is too much of a battle to get her in bed),

Natalie has rarely had consistent bedtimes either. Again, with all of the changes, that's been a good thing. I've also seen parents make bedtime too much of a battle. My younger sister put her two kids on sleep meds to get them in bed at the "proper" time. Yeah, it was only melatonin and the ped. was okay with it but still, since I'm a night owl, I just usually let my daughter crash when she was tired though she was on a sleep schedule for awhile when I could. Naturally that all changed when we moved and now, it's all out the window because we're in a studio apartment.

Originally Posted by doodah she eats whatever she wants (again, too much for mom to fight with for a balanced diet), she used to throw major tantrums (recently gotten better thanks to her daycare's boundaries), she will not speak to another adult if she doesn't want too and her parents do not regularly enforce basic manners (please, thank you, excuse me), she is sort of hit and miss on playing with other kids (she likes to have the adult's attention on just her and can be very bossy with any kids that will play with her), she is rarely required to dress in an appropriate or safe manner (she wears short little skirts even in the dead of winter)

This is where the parents really need to step up though I will admit, my daughter STILL at three HATES meeting new people which is VERY unfortunate for her because we're in South Korea, she has light brown hair and BLUE eyes, and is a HUGE attraction for people to either come up to her and touch her, or just talk to her. I know I'm starting to get really tired of her hiding when she sees someone she doesn't know and we ARE working on that one but it's hard. She can be VERY shy around people she doesn't know. Manners though we do work on at least. Playing with other kids...I won't tell you how much of a monster I was at my daughter's age. My daughter is MUCH better behaved than I was. I hit kids upside the head with table legs!

Originally Posted by doodah .....basically I don't see any boundaries really at all. Her babysitter is a really patient and experienced care giver and I know for a fact that she is MUCH better behaved at daycare. IMO she is not high needs because she can clearly control herself and understand the boundaries within different environments. It is just a shame that her mom cannot enjoy this side of her personality. She is a smart little kid and capable of much more than her parents ask of her.

It does sound like the mom needs a lot of help and just doesn't really know what to do period and is maybe overwhelmed by the whole deal. The little one does need more guidelines and more consistency. At least she's getting SOME of that in daycare but the parents need to work on it at home too. What this family is doing, I don't think is AP, it sounds more to me like they're just not parenting at all, especially if the mom isn't really striving to do AP in the first place. AP parents at least do what they do in the best interests of the child. What this mom is doing is for herself really, she just doesn't want to fight with her child and it just sounds like maybe she's really struggling with depression or something and needs help.

[MLB]

I don't consider myself to be very AP but I wanted to touch on the depression thing. No one in my life except my husband would know that I'm VERY depressed and have panic attacks thinking about going out of my house. I still do it because I have to but I can put on one giant happy face and fool the world. You can never, ever tell just how bad depression might be for someone else. If you're an outsider looking in, she may seem fine but she may really be struggling to hold it all together.