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Old 01-11-2007, 04:59 PM   #111
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Re: Serious Q about circumsizion..

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Actually, there are several types of FGM. Some "only" take the clitoral hood (which serves many of the same purposes as the foreskin). Some take the clitoral hood and cut the labia. Some remove the clitoris entirely, and cut and stitch the labia together leaving only a tiny hole to urinate out of. Some remove the entire clitoris and most of the labial. All are illegal in the U.S. and several other countries. All are done for religious and cultural reasons. I don't like that excuse.
According to WHO and The UN over 80% of FGM is type one, or the removal of only the Clitoral hood. And just to fully shed light on the subject it is only illegal when performed on a nonconsenting party. In fact one of the fastest growing cosmetic feilds is vaginal surgery. Women are choosing as adults to have these pieces removed. Especially after childbirth. Women are choosing to remove their clitoral hood because the believe it is cleaner. They are choosing to have their labia shortened because they believe it makes them apear more youthful and attractive. And they are having their vaginal opening tightened with lasers to make them more like before they had a baby and appeal to men. So I guess the argument for MGM that lots of men choose to have it done as adults is going to have to go out the window to. Since apparently people will do anything to their body if they think it will make them more appealing to their partners.

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Old 01-11-2007, 05:25 PM   #112
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Re: Serious Q about circumsizion..

OK, I just watched that video and that was not what happened to my son at all! If you want I can have my DH send you a PM detailing how our son's circ was done as I'm sure it is the norm now. I can't believe what they were doing to that poor baby![/QUOTE]


i'm not for or against circ's to each their own... but i will say this
videos like that most of the time come from a one sided source on the internet too depending on where you look. they are going to show a really graphic horrific video to sway peoples opinions . the best bet is to get a true well known medical site with pros and cons and base your opinion from there or talking to a professional.
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Old 01-11-2007, 05:55 PM   #113
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Re: Serious Q about circumsizion..

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According to WHO and The UN over 80% of FGM is type one, or the removal of only the Clitoral hood. And just to fully shed light on the subject it is only illegal when performed on a nonconsenting party. In fact one of the fastest growing cosmetic feilds is vaginal surgery. Women are choosing as adults to have these pieces removed. Especially after childbirth. Women are choosing to remove their clitoral hood because the believe it is cleaner. They are choosing to have their labia shortened because they believe it makes them apear more youthful and attractive. And they are having their vaginal opening tightened with lasers to make them more like before they had a baby and appeal to men. So I guess the argument for MGM that lots of men choose to have it done as adults is going to have to go out the window to. Since apparently people will do anything to their body if they think it will make them more appealing to their partners.
Yes, women ARE doing that, but they are still by far in the minority. Just as (I believe) men who CHOOSE to get circumcised as an adult are in the minority. I guess I really should revise my stance on circumcision. I am STRONGLY opposed to infant circumcision. And the circumcision of children. If an ADULT wants to have his foreskin cut off... I say have at it!
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Old 01-11-2007, 07:35 PM   #114
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Re: Serious Q about circumsizion..

I understand, I was just trying to clarify for those who might get confused by this issue. FGM is illegal when performed on children, and we all tend to get it in our mind that no one would consent to that kind of surgery. But the truth is women do consent to it, and the numbers of women signing on for it are growing at an alarming rate. One of the top arguments i have heard for having a boy circumcised when the person already knows that there are no good medical reasons is because a friend or relative or friend of a friend had it done as an adult because it was better to be cut. And obviously this person would know because they had had it both ways. I just wanted to point out that the same argument could be used in favor of female circumcision as women are now seeking it out and flying across the country to find Dr's who will perform it. In 2006 it was the fastest growing cosmetic surgery practice. I have yet to find any argument that I thought was good enough for performing cosmetic surgery on a nb's genitals. After 18 they can do whatever they want to themselves.
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Old 01-11-2007, 09:07 PM   #115
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Re: Serious Q about circumsizion..

As an Orthodox Jew, this was not an issue for us to decide; it was a religious mandate. But I do have a few things to say:

1. Consider finding a mohel (trained Jewish professional) either do the circumcision (some will do for non Jews) or who has trained some area docs and use someone he has trained. Your risks of botching are far lower.

2. Both my sons cried for a short time afterwards, healed within a day or 2, and never any problems since.

3. That being said, if I weren't Jewish, I would think carefully before doing it, for some of the reasons posted above.

4. Others of the things posted above seem more farfetched. For example, I can tell you from experience, having known people who chose to become Jewish and had to undergo circumcision, that it is FAR more painful as an adult, or even as a teen. Babies heal much quicker, and forget their pain much sooner. My kids cried harder and longer for some of their bumps and bruises than they did for their circumcision. (I, on the other hand, cried buckets during their circ!) Also, I find the attempt to connect male and female circ as being equally barbaric as just plain silly. Men still have sexual pleasure after circ, and most have little or no scarring. For women, that isn't the case.

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Old 01-11-2007, 09:44 PM   #116
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Re: Serious Q about circumsizion..

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Also, I find the attempt to connect male and female circ as being equally barbaric as just plain silly. Men still have sexual pleasure after circ, and most have little or no scarring. For women, that isn't the case.
I think it is sad that people in this country are uneducated on this topic. In fact according to WHO and the UN first degree FGM and MGM are very comporable, and infact first degree FGM removes less nervous tissue than MGM. 80% of FGM is first degree. Women are left with little scarring and are more than capable of having normal sexual pleasure. All that is removed is the clitioral hood, which again contains less nerves than the foreskin of a man. For that matter many women who have had second degree FGM also claim to have a normal sex life and to have normal sexual pleasure. 3rd degree FGM (the really frightening kind) makes up a very minute percentage of all female circumcisions. Also over 11% of men who are circumcised will be left with what can be considered debilitating problems. Inability to become erect or maintain an erection, total penile amputation, painful curved erections, hidden penis, ect. I could go on, but I won't. And Female circumcision is just as religiously and culturally entrenched as male circumcision. THe only difference is that it is not culturally entrenched in America, and therefore we can call it wrong and stand back and pretend like what we are doing is better somehow. If you don't want others to judge your religious decision to circumcise your son then you need to take a step back when judging some one elses religious decision to circumcise their daughter.
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Old 01-11-2007, 09:50 PM   #117
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Re: Serious Q about circumsizion..

I agree with Shannon. No matter the gender, I'm against circumcision for infants and children. When a person is of a proper age, and WANTS it done, then fine. I have no issues with that at all. I just feel that a person should have the right to decide something so personal for themselves.
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Old 01-11-2007, 09:59 PM   #118
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Re: Serious Q about circumsizion..

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Actually, there are several types of FGM. Some "only" take the clitoral hood (which serves many of the same purposes as the foreskin). Some take the clitoral hood and cut the labia. Some remove the clitoris entirely, and cut and stitch the labia together leaving only a tiny hole to urinate out of. Some remove the entire clitoris and most of the labial. All are illegal in the U.S. and several other countries. All are done for religious and cultural reasons. I don't like that excuse.
uhh..yeah, i said that??
not describing everything but you make it sound liek im weird or something?
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Old 01-11-2007, 10:01 PM   #119
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Re: Serious Q about circumsizion..

An interesting point, Shannon, and I stand corrected about FGM. However, those who want to will indeed judge me about my religious decision, as people always do on matters where they feel strongly. Personally, I see cultural relativity as a slippery slope, but that's another discussion.
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Old 01-11-2007, 10:02 PM   #120
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Re: Serious Q about circumsizion..

and yeah female genital cutting is illegal on non consenting women. i meant that its illegal as people try to equate with male cutting, as babies, and which is removal of the clitoral hood, which all that does is make the clitoris be exposed. whoopee. lots of people have all sorts of things done, yes, as lots of kinda of body modification as well as for sexual function/pleasure, etc. its qute interesting. its still illegal in this context, though.
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