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Old 01-06-2007, 03:11 AM   #21
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Re: Only 2 carseats make consumers cut.

oh...and here's something scary to think about as well....

Combi recently had a recall on their infant car seats and bases. Turns out that although they passed the national safety standard test; some of their seats and bases were flawed in that, during some accidents, the car seat FLEW out of hte base injuring the baby. and guess who did the testing BEFORE the recall was done? ... cr

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Old 01-06-2007, 08:34 AM   #22
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Re: Only 2 carseats make consumers cut.

As a certified tech, watching the crash tests CR showed in their t.v. segment they released, the Evenflo seat that "flew sideways" is not the seat they have on their list, nor is it in anyway installed correctly. The seat is on it's base, with the seatbelt going over the entire seat, not through the base belt path as it should. Installed in that fashion, there is NO WAY any car seat should pass the crash tests they were doing. Last year, CR stated they found the Marathon to overrotate in a way they stated was unsafe. Britax has been contacting them since they came out with that report to talk to them about their findings and try to see how they came to that conclusion... They will not respond to Britax at all. Don't you think if they were really out there to Help make car seats safer instead of starting mass hysteria over the safety of car seats, they would respond to the companies they are saying failed their tests... I would think they would be overly willing to share their results and have them peer reviewed... so that correction could be made to make those seats safer. They refuse to tell anyone how they tested the seat, how they came to their conclusions, and that is very sketchy to me.
I do have a job in which I get paid to be a CPST for a maternity ward in a hospital. I work about 2 shifts a month to fill in for the full time staff, plus do a few car seat check-up stations... I volunteer at every car seat check that anyone in the community puts on though, for no pay and spend hours each week answering questions on-line. I do not do it for the money, nor do I ever get any type of kick-back from any manufacturer. I recommend the seats I do because I know which ones will last longer, have great features and are easy to install and use. The CPS tech's I know keep up with NHTSA's standards of car seat testing in the u.s. and know which seats don't preform well on u.s. tests. U.S. does need to add other tests to their requirements, but CR shouldn't release Failure results on tests that might not ever replicate real world crash dynamics without having peer reviews done to make sure their conclusions are solid, and then turn around and not offer up any information on how they did such testing.
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Old 01-06-2007, 09:05 AM   #23
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Re: Only 2 carseats make consumers cut.

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Yes, they do make $ by selling magazines and selling subscriptions, but they need to make $ in order to purchaes the items to test.
If they sold 1000 subcriptions at $20/yr, that's $20,000. I don't think the seats cost that much. And in actuality, they probably sold more like 100,000 subscriptions based on how much news coverage that this received - and I think the website is a monthly fee or far more then $20, but I'm not sure.

I have not seen anywhere that says they are using a certified carseat technician to do the installations - and have a very hard time believing they used one if they couldn't get one seat to install in 5 different cars.

If you choose to trust CR, that's fine. I think CR is publically irresponsible for publishing these scare tactics in an effort to make money - and it does bother me that for the rest of the year, they won't respond to any of the manufacturers, show anyone the testing methods used, etc etc. SafeKids and NHTSA are investigating what they say are "problems" with CR's report.
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Old 01-06-2007, 09:59 AM   #24
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Re: Only 2 carseats make consumers cut.

Scary, my guy's in a convertable seat, they're not on here. When he had an infant seat, a lot of times I would use it without the base. I wonder about the safety of that?
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Old 01-06-2007, 10:02 AM   #25
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Re: Only 2 carseats make consumers cut.

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Originally Posted by Dsunny1 View Post
As a certified tech, watching the crash tests CR showed in their t.v. segment they released, the Evenflo seat that "flew sideways" is not the seat they have on their list, nor is it in anyway installed correctly. The seat is on it's base, with the seatbelt going over the entire seat, not through the base belt path as it should. Installed in that fashion, there is NO WAY any car seat should pass the crash tests they were doing. Last year, CR stated they found the Marathon to overrotate in a way they stated was unsafe. Britax has been contacting them since they came out with that report to talk to them about their findings and try to see how they came to that conclusion... They will not respond to Britax at all. Don't you think if they were really out there to Help make car seats safer instead of starting mass hysteria over the safety of car seats, they would respond to the companies they are saying failed their tests... I would think they would be overly willing to share their results and have them peer reviewed... so that correction could be made to make those seats safer. They refuse to tell anyone how they tested the seat, how they came to their conclusions, and that is very sketchy to me.
I do have a job in which I get paid to be a CPST for a maternity ward in a hospital. I work about 2 shifts a month to fill in for the full time staff, plus do a few car seat check-up stations... I volunteer at every car seat check that anyone in the community puts on though, for no pay and spend hours each week answering questions on-line. I do not do it for the money, nor do I ever get any type of kick-back from any manufacturer. I recommend the seats I do because I know which ones will last longer, have great features and are easy to install and use. The CPS tech's I know keep up with NHTSA's standards of car seat testing in the u.s. and know which seats don't preform well on u.s. tests. U.S. does need to add other tests to their requirements, but CR shouldn't release Failure results on tests that might not ever replicate real world crash dynamics without having peer reviews done to make sure their conclusions are solid, and then turn around and not offer up any information on how they did such testing.
Very well put.
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Old 01-06-2007, 12:04 PM   #26
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Re: Only 2 carseats make consumers cut.

Infant seats are very safe to use without the base provided yours can be installed that way (there are a few on the market that require the base and can not be installed without it). CR has not put out any type of convertible/combination car seat lists since 2005.
Raven: the seat they are referring to that they could not get installed has been known for that problem since it came out and it's manufacturer Dorell who makes Cosco/Safety first/ eddie bauer/ and alpha omega seats redesigned their base and are offering it for free for anyone with that seat. The new base makes the installation of that seat fine. I believe it when they say they couldn't get it installed, as it really was impossible to do so.. CR of course didn't use the redesigned base with their testing but chose to use the old one that is well known to be impossible to install. Makes you wonder why they would do that, other then to boost their report..... The owners of that particular infant seat that registered their seat got a notice with the offer to replace that base for a new one free of charge from the manufacturer a long time ago...
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Old 01-06-2007, 12:17 PM   #27
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Re: Only 2 carseats make consumers cut.

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Cocooning is what rearfacing infant and convertible car seats are designed to do. In a frontal crash (the most common) the seat will rebound against the back of the vehicle seat and then come back down. It is made to do this as a way to distribute crash forces and help ride down the crash. Many of the seats in CR's tests did just what they were supposed to do when they cocooned, but for some reason they are stating it is a problem. The only rearfacing seats that do not cocoon are ones that allow rearfacing tethers, or have an anti-rebound foot on the base.
My copaniion has the anti-rebound bar on the base...not the foot. My instrucion manual says it's an anti-rebound bar thouh...so should this seat no rebound?
Was the companion in its base during the test?
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Old 01-06-2007, 12:35 PM   #28
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Re: Only 2 carseats make consumers cut.

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uh..well... um... I one of those that tend to believe consumer reports. Yes, they do make $ by selling magazines and selling subscriptions, but they need to make $ in order to purchaes the items to test. All items that they buy to perform their tests on are NOT donated by the manufacturer, they are purchased by cr. If they were donated by the manufacturer, it could be said that they already have a bias towards those companies that donated a "testing" model vs. one who has not donated a testing model.

Also, please correct me if I'm wrong!! I don't want to sound stupider than I already do, LOL, but, I believe that the car seat testing that they perform is conducted by cr using a certified car seat person.

What I found is pretty much true.... there are many carseats out there on the market. ALL carseats are SAFE as they HAVE to be in order to pass national traffic safety laws. However, you also have your lowest, middle and then the premium carseats. The lowest would be those carseats that are just barely passing the minimum safety standards. The middle would be those that are a little above the standards and the premium would have the highest protection standards. but ALL the seats are safe in that they pass the standards.

so to me, I use CR to determine what car seat to buy that has the premium highest protection standards. I do not want to find out what the highest or lowest protection is by getting into a car accident, kwim? If I can buy a car seat that offers a higher level of protection than another one and I can afford it, than that's the one I'm going to buy.
No certified person has anything to do with CR testing! They won't even discuss it with manufacturers, NHTSA, etc.

CR rates premium seats LOW because they cost more. I've seen them rate some of the poorest functioning seats as top rate. That shows me they know NOTHING about CPS. I trust NOTHING they say. Due to their tactics if nothing else.

I will continue to follow what my six plus years of training has taught me.
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Old 01-06-2007, 12:37 PM   #29
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Re: Only 2 carseats make consumers cut.

I "think" all seats were in the base.

Yes, the anti-rebound bar elimanates the rebound.
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Old 01-06-2007, 12:43 PM   #30
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Re: Only 2 carseats make consumers cut.

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my question is did they test the car seats base vs with out base? It seemed like all the problems lyed w/ the base
I have NEVER trusted the bases in those infant seats. I never use them. I have always secured the seats in with the seat belt going through the top clip like parts. I always invisioned the seat flying off that base on impact. So glad I always felt that!!
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