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Old 10-08-2009, 11:59 AM   #1
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Unhappy ds got in his first fight at school

a kid on the playground was trying to take a football away from him at recess, but ds wouldn't give it up so he hit him across the face (hard enough that he has a cut under his eye from his glasses) ds proceeded to knock the kid down and pinch his leg so tomorrow he gets to spend the day in ISS (in-school-suspension) where he'll do all his regular assignments, just not in his class. i'm not sure what punishment the other kid got, but the principal said it's more severe if you instigate rather than just fight back.

anyway, i'm torn...i know if someone were to hit me across the face i'd sure as heck hit them back and i definitely don't want my ds to be a punching bag in life but at the same time, it's obviously not ok to fight. he's usually really good about avoiding confrontation and just walking away if someone's being rude or giving him a hard time, but this kid took it to the next level! i guess i just don't know what to do...i don't want to confuse him, but i think it's ok to hit back and defend yourself if you get hit by no means do i want to encourage fighting and i will continue to tell him that he shouldn't ever hit anyone to get his way or what he wants, but how do i talk to him about it without being contradictory?

UPDATE:
so ds told me the whole story when he got home from school and he actually tackled the kid and then pinched him after he got hit...imo that constitutes as fighting i told him that he needs to protect himself if someone is trying to hurt him, but it is wrong for him to start beating them up. we did a little role play scenario where i was the kid with the ball and he was the meanie trying to take it from me and we acted out what he should have done instead...kinda corny, but it was the easiest way for me to explain it

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Old 10-08-2009, 12:08 PM   #2
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Re: ds got in his first fight at school

Yea, hitting back at school is an offense. Good administrators understand the situation and will usually give the defender less of a punishment, but still the rules have to be enforced. In many upper level schools any type of fight results in the students being taken to the police station (our highschool is that way) So maybe the best approach would be to teach skills to deal with bullies and the like?
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Old 10-08-2009, 12:38 PM   #3
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Re: ds got in his first fight at school

I think there is a HUGE difference between physically defending yourself and "fighting". I would rather my son defend himself than just to lay there crying or even to give up the football to a kid that just smacked him in the face. At least, I would want my son to hold tight to the ball and yell for help.

Is this what your son told you or did the teacher say it? Was the teacher right there? I mean maybe your son was only defending himself.....fights like this happen so quick and the stories get so jumbled.

I know this dad that has 3 boys and he is a REALLY good dad. He always tells his son to never start a fight....but to defend themselves AND realize that from the school's viewpoint, they will be getting in trouble for defending themselves. One time some little boy called a little girl a dirty word and then one of his son's told the boy to stop and a fight started. Well the guy made his son take the punishment from the school but he didn't get punished at home.....because he was defending someone else and he used his words first and THEN the fight started.
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Old 10-08-2009, 12:49 PM   #4
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Re: ds got in his first fight at school

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Originally Posted by jacquelinemarie82 View Post
I think there is a HUGE difference between physically defending yourself and "fighting". I would rather my son defend himself than just to lay there crying or even to give up the football to a kid that just smacked him in the face. At least, I would want my son to hold tight to the ball and yell for help.

Is this what your son told you or did the teacher say it? Was the teacher right there? I mean maybe your son was only defending himself.....fights like this happen so quick and the stories get so jumbled.

I know this dad that has 3 boys and he is a REALLY good dad. He always tells his son to never start a fight....but to defend themselves AND realize that from the school's viewpoint, they will be getting in trouble for defending themselves. One time some little boy called a little girl a dirty word and then one of his son's told the boy to stop and a fight started. Well the guy made his son take the punishment from the school but he didn't get punished at home.....because he was defending someone else and he used his words first and THEN the fight started.
I agree, when I was younger, starting fights was not a big deal but now that I have kids, I don't want them doing as I did, I want them to try and handle the situation without violence but if some kid hits them, they have my ok to defend themselves. It is completely different to defend yourself then to start/pick the fight. I would not punish my kids if they simply are defending themselves but if they start the fight, then yes they will be punished for that.
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Old 10-08-2009, 12:57 PM   #5
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Re: ds got in his first fight at school

Why is it an either/or thing? Can't kids be taught to get out of that situation and run for help too? I mean, is the only answer to lie down & take it or fight back? It just seems like fight related threads are either/or.
I dunno. Maybe I am raising a coward.
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Old 10-08-2009, 01:04 PM   #6
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Re: ds got in his first fight at school

Quote:
Originally Posted by foxygoober View Post
Yea, hitting back at school is an offense. Good administrators understand the situation and will usually give the defender less of a punishment, but still the rules have to be enforced. In many upper level schools any type of fight results in the students being taken to the police station (our highschool is that way) So maybe the best approach would be to teach skills to deal with bullies and the like?
i definitely want him to understand how to deal with kids like that, but there's a big difference between teasing and hitting and honestly i want him to stand up for himself in all instances, even if that means getting physical right back so that the kid doesn't continue to wail on him

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Originally Posted by jacquelinemarie82 View Post
I think there is a HUGE difference between physically defending yourself and "fighting". I would rather my son defend himself than just to lay there crying or even to give up the football to a kid that just smacked him in the face. At least, I would want my son to hold tight to the ball and yell for help.

Is this what your son told you or did the teacher say it? Was the teacher right there? I mean maybe your son was only defending himself.....fights like this happen so quick and the stories get so jumbled.

I know this dad that has 3 boys and he is a REALLY good dad. He always tells his son to never start a fight....but to defend themselves AND realize that from the school's viewpoint, they will be getting in trouble for defending themselves. One time some little boy called a little girl a dirty word and then one of his son's told the boy to stop and a fight started. Well the guy made his son take the punishment from the school but he didn't get punished at home.....because he was defending someone else and he used his words first and THEN the fight started.
the principal was actually on the playground at the time and saw the whole thing unfold so she told me what happened over the phone. the one thing i'm not sure of is whether or not it ended when he knocked the other kid down and pinched him, or if the teachers had to actually break them up...that would kind of make a difference

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Originally Posted by Sweet_Fantasy_Fox View Post
I agree, when I was younger, starting fights was not a big deal but now that I have kids, I don't want them doing as I did, I want them to try and handle the situation without violence but if some kid hits them, they have my ok to defend themselves. It is completely different to defend yourself then to start/pick the fight. I would not punish my kids if they simply are defending themselves but if they start the fight, then yes they will be punished for that.
i guess my thing is that of course i'd want ds to knock the kid down or do whatever he had to do to get out of the situation, but i want him to understand that it's not ok for him to knock the kid down and then start hitting him, kwim? imo at that point he's no longer defending himself, but taking out his frustration/anger on the other kid.

he's a pretty bright little guy so i think he'll understand, it just seems like such a gray area and i don't want to confuse him by contradicting what the school says i think we'll just need to sit down and discuss what happened and what would have been a better way to handle it. i'm sure he's going to be upset and angry about the whole thing and i definitely don't want to make him feel like he's in trouble for standing up for himself.

maybe we can come up with a plan of action for those types of situations where first he tells the kid to leave him alone, then if the kid doesn't stop he calls for help, but if the kid hits him it's ok to defend himself to get out of the situation, and he needs to go straight to an adult after that...
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Old 10-08-2009, 01:07 PM   #7
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Re: ds got in his first fight at school

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Originally Posted by nakedbabytoes View Post
Why is it an either/or thing? Can't kids be taught to get out of that situation and run for help too? I mean, is the only answer to lie down & take it or fight back? It just seems like fight related threads are either/or.
I dunno. Maybe I am raising a coward.
ITA, but what if the kid is on top of your kid or has them cornered or something? then is it ok to hit/push/shove to get away? i think it is, but some people (and the school) would consider that fighting, kwim?

i don't think you're raising a coward, by teach your kiddo that, i think the cowardly thing to do would to lay there and take it
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Old 10-08-2009, 01:09 PM   #8
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Re: ds got in his first fight at school

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Originally Posted by karabeth05 View Post
i definitely want him to understand how to deal with kids like that, but there's a big difference between teasing and hitting and honestly i want him to stand up for himself in all instances, even if that means getting physical right back so that the kid doesn't continue to wail on him



the principal was actually on the playground at the time and saw the whole thing unfold so she told me what happened over the phone. the one thing i'm not sure of is whether or not it ended when he knocked the other kid down and pinched him, or if the teachers had to actually break them up...that would kind of make a difference



i guess my thing is that of course i'd want ds to knock the kid down or do whatever he had to do to get out of the situation, but i want him to understand that it's not ok for him to knock the kid down and then start hitting him, kwim? imo at that point he's no longer defending himself, but taking out his frustration/anger on the other kid.

he's a pretty bright little guy so i think he'll understand, it just seems like such a gray area and i don't want to confuse him by contradicting what the school says i think we'll just need to sit down and discuss what happened and what would have been a better way to handle it. i'm sure he's going to be upset and angry about the whole thing and i definitely don't want to make him feel like he's in trouble for standing up for himself.

maybe we can come up with a plan of action for those types of situations where first he tells the kid to leave him alone, then if the kid doesn't stop he calls for help, but if the kid hits him it's ok to defend himself to get out of the situation, and he needs to go straight to an adult after that...
That sounds like a good plan, goodluck mama.
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Old 10-08-2009, 01:11 PM   #9
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Re: ds got in his first fight at school

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That sounds like a good plan, goodluck mama.
thanks, i'm really hashing through this so i'll be prepared when he gets home from school in about an hour dh is at work and unreachable right now and he doesn't get home until an hour after ds at first i was just flabbergasted and mad, but i think my rational side is coming around
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Old 10-08-2009, 01:13 PM   #10
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Re: ds got in his first fight at school

Good luck!
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