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Old 01-23-2007, 07:31 PM   #1
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A serious question because I need serious help (re: circ and Christianity/the Bible)

Disclaimer: Please don't make me debate here... I am so tapped out and exhausted and utterly PISSED from all of this and I just can't deal with it. So anyone who is pro-circ or pro-let-daddy-decide, please save it for the other thread that's going on right now. Because my sister isn't going to change her mind. And please know that nothing said here is meant to offend anyone. Oh, and just another warning: This is just as much a major VENT as it is a request for info. Thanks.

Ok, so. My sister is pregnant, as I've posted before and on the other thread... She doesn't yet know the sex of the baby but her and her SO are in full-on knock-down-drag-out over wether or not to circ (they just got into another fight today and I'm talking to her on YM now). He has ZERO info or knowledge about the issue and literally refuses to do any research or read anything we literally put in front of him. He simply says that its disgusting and that it will stink. (???) He even thinks that you have to wash it with baking soda. He also thinks that 99% of the male US population is circ'd. lleyes2: And he's going around telling people in his family that Bram's penis is disgusting. And that's a bunch of BS because he's only seen Bram in person TWICE and has certaintly never seen his penis. My mom is also on his side (she has FIVE girls and has no experience with boys, much less intact ones). My mom even told my sister that its my fault that she thinks this way and that she was going to "tell me off" for not getting Bram circ'd. Oh, and also lied and told everyone that Bram keeps getting infection after infection. He's never ever had ONE infection. The ONE time that we thought he had a yeast infection - that didn't even start on his penis - it turned out to be Charlie's soap burn.) I told her she isn't going to see my kid or come anywhere near him or his penis for that matter. I freaking hate all of them right now. And my poor sister has NO one to turn to because everyone around her is pro-circ and basically telling her that she's crazy.

Alright, now that that's out of the way... the only thing that my sister and I can think of that *may* get him to at least be a LITTLE more opened minded is to go at it from a Christian POV instead of cultural. Because he just ain't listening. I know I've read someone's posts around here somewhere about anti-circ passages or verses in the Bible or SOMETHING.

PLEASE, for the love of this child's foreskin, if you DIDN'T circ for religious reasons PLEASE post here or PM me. We are desperate.

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Old 01-23-2007, 08:02 PM   #2
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Re: A serious question because I need serious help (re: circ and Christianity/the Bible)

I can't really see a reason NOT to circ from a Chistian POV, because many Christians DO circ for that reasons. And, incidentally, both my boys are circ'd but I am not really AGAINST foreskins (just not my personal choice). I CAN feel your pain....perhaps not on this particular topic, but it is hard to make "unpopular" choices (and I just mean within your family group not on a wordly stance) that you KNOW are the better choices....like CDing for instance.

Anyway, from the Christian, POV the only argument I think can be made is this. Before Jesus, God required all the Jews (His people) to be circ'd. He said that this was the way he identified His people. (This is why this is such a popular thing nowadays, in general.....how it became cultural at least). Since the crucifiction of Jesus, God's people (those who've accepted Christ) are identified because we are covered by the blood of The Lamb. In other words, Jesus fufillment of the law made it so God identifies us not by our lack of a foreskin, but by whether or not we are covered in the blood of Jesus.

And, on a side note, I am pretty sure the mother has the final say on this topic. I mean I understand the desire to agree, but Dr's will go with the mother's direction.
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Old 01-23-2007, 08:08 PM   #3
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Re: A serious question because I need serious help (re: circ and Christianity/the Bib

I'm sorry that I can't quote any actual scripture However, God creates humans perfect as they are, and for men that includes a foreskin.

Also, your sister can argue the angle, quite strongly, that her body is growing this baby and its her job to keep him free from harm.

I really wish I could be more help. I hope this is resolved soon, and in your sister's favor.
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Old 01-23-2007, 08:13 PM   #4
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Re: A serious question because I need serious help (re: circ and Christianity/the Bible)

I hate to tell you this but there is no "anti circ" scriptures... He mentions that it is not about whether to circ or not to circ but He isn't even talking in the physical it is a statement about "why", just as one of the the posters above mentioned... either way, it says to circ a couple of times in the old testament. Sorry, I know it isn't what you wanted to hear, but Biblically it is not going to work to try to back up this argument on the "not to circ" side with scripture... especially if the guy knows anything about the Bible at all. Maybe she should compromise with him and say, ok.. you do your research and I will do mine.. cold hard facts to cold hard facts, and we will see what we come up with. If that doesn't work then maybe her agree to have it done, ONLY if there is a problem that is making circ inament. After all, most the problems I have heard of are when the adults are older and have been sexually active or have not learned how to take care of themselves. I have heard a lot of men having to have it done later on in life, and recently a few under 3yr olds I knew had to have it done because of infections. Also, maybe if you researched it for them unbiasedly and presented it then it would come off better.

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Old 01-23-2007, 08:15 PM   #5
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Re: A serious question because I need serious help (re: circ and Christianity/the Bible)

I don't know my scripture, but I do know that Catholics outside of the US do not circumcise their children. That to me says that it isn't required of Christians. Don't know if that helps or not though.
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Old 01-23-2007, 08:21 PM   #6
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Re: A serious question because I need serious help (re: circ and Christianity/the Bib

Here are a couple of websites that might be of assistance...

http://www.cirp.org/pages/cultural/glass2/

http://www.cirp.org/pages/cultural/peron1/

Hope you find something that helps!
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Old 01-23-2007, 08:22 PM   #7
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Re: A serious question because I need serious help (re: circ and Christianity/the Bib

I hate family feuds and wish you much luck in research for her mama.
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Old 01-23-2007, 09:12 PM   #8
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Re: A serious question because I need serious help (re: circ and Christianity/the Bible)

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Originally Posted by Dearonebaby View Post
I hate to tell you this but there is no "anti circ" scriptures... He mentions that it is not about whether to circ or not to circ but He isn't even talking in the physical it is a statement about "why", just as one of the the posters above mentioned... either way, it says to circ a couple of times in the old testament. Sorry, I know it isn't what you wanted to hear, but Biblically it is not going to work to try to back up this argument on the "not to circ" side with scripture... especially if the guy knows anything about the Bible at all. Maybe she should compromise with him and say, ok.. you do your research and I will do mine.. cold hard facts to cold hard facts, and we will see what we come up with. If that doesn't work then maybe her agree to have it done, ONLY if there is a problem that is making circ inament. After all, most the problems I have heard of are when the adults are older and have been sexually active or have not learned how to take care of themselves. I have heard a lot of men having to have it done later on in life, and recently a few under 3yr olds I knew had to have it done because of infections. Also, maybe if you researched it for them unbiasedly and presented it then it would come off better.
Yeah... we've tried that. He refuses to do any real research. He says he doesn't trust anything off of the internet "because during the Bush/Kerry election the internet said that Kerry won". (That right there tells ya how ignorant of a person I'm dealing with here...)

"Later" won't work either. He wants it done ASAP because "its disgusting". He even told my poor sweet sister that he would have never had a baby with her if he would have known that she didn't want to circ (well, actually, he didn't say "have a baby" - it was something much meaner and crude than that). But the bad thing is - she DID tell him way before she even start dating him (again) that she would never circ. So he KNEW ahead of time.

And all of my research IS unbiased. He just won't look at it. He will only listen to his aunt that is a nurse. Because he thinks ALL doctors and any medical staff are always right. He like worships them or something.
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Old 01-23-2007, 09:13 PM   #9
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Re: A serious question because I need serious help (re: circ and Christianity/the Bib

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Originally Posted by Kaci View Post
Here are a couple of websites that might be of assistance...

http://www.cirp.org/pages/cultural/glass2/

http://www.cirp.org/pages/cultural/peron1/

Hope you find something that helps!
Thank you!!
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Old 01-23-2007, 09:13 PM   #10
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Re: A serious question because I need serious help (re: circ and Christianity/the Bib

Paul talks about it in the NT. If I remember, he doesn't specifically say NOT to circ, but he does say its pointless for Christians pretty much. I'll try to find the verses.....
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