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Old 01-23-2010, 10:04 PM   #11
Nishu
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Re: I need advise for an insomniac child!!!

Did you try the melatonin? We gave it to my daughter for awhile last year when she wasn't going to sleep until midnight or later. She'd literally just lay there awake, thinking about things. She wouldn't even bother trying to get up and ask for water or anything. She just genuinely just could not sleep.

It worked wonders for our daughter, and we only had to use it for a short time before her own clock took over and she started to fall asleep on her own.

Btw, before I'd blame the lack of sleep on ADD, I'd blame the ADD on lack of sleep.

Good luck.

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Old 01-23-2010, 11:02 PM   #12
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Re: I need advise for an insomniac child!!!

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Did you try the melatonin? We gave it to my daughter for awhile last year when she wasn't going to sleep until midnight or later. She'd literally just lay there awake, thinking about things. She wouldn't even bother trying to get up and ask for water or anything. She just genuinely just could not sleep.

It worked wonders for our daughter, and we only had to use it for a short time before her own clock took over and she started to fall asleep on her own.

Btw, before I'd blame the lack of sleep on ADD, I'd blame the ADD on lack of sleep.

Good luck.

You are probably right. Her Dr said that if we can get her sleep issue figured out that her behavior issues will probably get better too.

We haven't given it a try yet but I am thinking that we should try the melatonin.
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Old 01-23-2010, 11:14 PM   #13
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Re: I need advise for an insomniac child!!!

I had a friend tell me once that she gave it to her kids before bed on the advice of her pediatrician. To be honest, I thought she was crazy. Why give something like that to a child? Couldn't you just give them a warm bath or something?

It was about a year later when my daughter started having problems. We tried everything. The teas, rubbing her back, warm baths... Nothing worked. I would walk past her room at 1am and she'd call out the door with some random ridiculous question she had been pondering. About the same time she developed horrible behavior problems. She'd back talk, yell at her sisters, whine... she'd destroy her room when she got sent to it. It was horrible. I knew that her lack of sleep was causing it though. I finally decided to try melatonin and I suddenly had my little girl back.

We didn't use it for long, maybe a couple weeks. I'm not a doctor or anything I wouldn't tell you that it's right for you, but in our case it worked wonders.
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Old 01-23-2010, 11:19 PM   #14
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Re: I need advise for an insomniac child!!!

I just did some reading and I'm a little worried about one issue. My dd has a history of seizures and from what I am reading it can actually increase that chance of seizures in children who have a history of them. I am going to discuss it with her ped before we actually decide to try it. Just want to be safe.
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Old 01-23-2010, 11:26 PM   #15
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Re: I need advise for an insomniac child!!!

Mama I would look at her diet. Honestly just "cutting back" on foods (if there is a sensitivity or allergy) does not do a lick of good. DD is gluten sensitive and if she eats one piece of bread she gets symptoms. Also it takes the body some time to get rid of all of the offending substance (like 2 weeks) so you may not see any results until she's been off the food for that long. I know it's hard, but if there is a sensitivity going on it can cause all kinds of weird stuff. My DS is soy sensitive (along with lots of other stuff) but soy makes him really restless and wakeful at night. He wakes a lot and flails around and stuff. I also know another mama with a 4 year old who can't sleep when he eats soy. Since you are vegan, that will make protein difficult...more beans I guess?

My other idea is could she be hungry? Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm wondering if her food options are so limited by eating vegan she may not be getting everything she needs protein and fat-wise? Kids need lots of fat in their diets--does she eat a lot of nuts and avocados? I know that I have a lot of trouble falling asleep at night if I haven't eaten enough, specifically protein. I will lie in bed forever and not be able to fall asleep until I get up and eat a pretty hefty snack that's high protein/low carb. If your DD is eating a lot of fruit right before bed that could be a lot of sugar too, which IMO needs to be balanced out with protein. It seems that there is definitely something going on with her...I don't see how a 3 year old could just lie in bed for that long unless there was some issue.
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Old 01-24-2010, 12:06 AM   #16
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Re: I need advise for an insomniac child!!!

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Mama I would look at her diet. Honestly just "cutting back" on foods (if there is a sensitivity or allergy) does not do a lick of good. DD is gluten sensitive and if she eats one piece of bread she gets symptoms. Also it takes the body some time to get rid of all of the offending substance (like 2 weeks) so you may not see any results until she's been off the food for that long. I know it's hard, but if there is a sensitivity going on it can cause all kinds of weird stuff. My DS is soy sensitive (along with lots of other stuff) but soy makes him really restless and wakeful at night. He wakes a lot and flails around and stuff. I also know another mama with a 4 year old who can't sleep when he eats soy. Since you are vegan, that will make protein difficult...more beans I guess?

My other idea is could she be hungry? Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm wondering if her food options are so limited by eating vegan she may not be getting everything she needs protein and fat-wise? Kids need lots of fat in their diets--does she eat a lot of nuts and avocados? I know that I have a lot of trouble falling asleep at night if I haven't eaten enough, specifically protein. I will lie in bed forever and not be able to fall asleep until I get up and eat a pretty hefty snack that's high protein/low carb. If your DD is eating a lot of fruit right before bed that could be a lot of sugar too, which IMO needs to be balanced out with protein. It seems that there is definitely something going on with her...I don't see how a 3 year old could just lie in bed for that long unless there was some issue.
As for her diet, we eat very well. We do eat lots of nuts, beans and yes avocado too. Her ped doesn't feel she is having any diet or food issues. We also drink more almond and rice milk than we do soy since it's better for you and tastes better too. The only soy we really eat is from tofu. We do not eat alot of packaged foods so we don't get alot of soy that way either. We do eat alot of wheat and so I tried to aviod this for about a month, I lost weight, but she didn't show any changes.
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Old 01-24-2010, 07:00 AM   #17
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Re: I need advise for an insomniac child!!!

None of the diet, herbs, or melatonin worked on my boy. He is on Clonidine for sleep. He used to sleep 2 hours per day...now he sleep at leat 9! Get into a behavioral pedi.
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Old 01-24-2010, 11:43 AM   #18
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Re: I need advise for an insomniac child!!!

Is your dd on seizure meds? A side effect could be trouble sleeping, you'll have to talk to her doc. I wouldn't give her any OTC meds or herbs at all without talking to her doc. It may interfere with her prescription meds.

Melatonin is a hormone that is produced by the brain to tell someone when to sleep and when to wake up. It's in your body all the time, so taking it isn't like taking Ambien or something. It's very safe.

Have you tried a placebo? When my dd was 4, we gave her "night night" medicine every night to help her sleep. She's got ADD really bad and has always been a total insomniac. The "night night" medicine was just milk in a syringe squirted in her mouth. But she totally bought it! And we'd play it up big time, too. "Oh, you'd better hurry to bed, it works really fast and you don't want to fall asleep on the stairs!" and she'd be yawning and telling us how sleepy she was on the way up. It was a crack up, but really, placebo is a powerful "drug." More powerful than many people think.
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None of the diet, herbs, or melatonin worked on my boy. He is on Clonidine for sleep. He used to sleep 2 hours per day...now he sleep at leat 9! Get into a behavioral pedi.
It definitely doesn't work for everybody. For some people melatonin knocks them out, and for some it doesn't work at all. That's why the dosage should not go higher than 6 mg's for anyone. Not because it's not safe, but because if it doesn't work at 6 mg's, it's just not going to work. It works great for my kids, but it doesn't work for me at all.
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Old 01-24-2010, 03:43 PM   #19
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Re: I need advise for an insomniac child!!!

Wow I have never heard of a child laying there like that for so long. I am amazed. Some kids in my family took the bedtime thing to extremes, but not like that! Has it always been this way to some degree? I have heard great things about this spray homeopathic stuff called Rescue Remedy. That whole line is supposed to be great. I think a vegan diet is great and I only recently cut wayyyyy back on soy (like almost none) after reading about how it messes with hormones and all kinds of other issues. I was unable to get pregnant until I cut soy. No idea if this is the problem in your case though. I do know that hormones regulate our bodies, so it could be a reason perhaps. In any case, good luck! Sleep deprivation tends to lead to more of the same until the cycle is broken for long enough that the body thrives again and then cycles seem to get reset on a good note. I had a friend that used to stay up all hours and get like 4 hours of sleep. I thought it was just her way, but now she sleeps well. She broke the cycle. Also I do agree that if you want to pin point a food you have to totally cut it out (not just avoid it) for two weeks to see if it is working. That is not easy to do! Good luck mama. I might see a specialist. This is a pretty big deal. No offense to your pedi, but it doesn't sound like this was taken very seriously. Hope it gets better!
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Old 01-25-2010, 06:22 AM   #20
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Re: I need advise for an insomniac child!!!

ditto to everyone else who already suggested food issues.

It could be a combination of gluten and casein (which requires 3months to remove fully and see if it's working properly), yeast (candida diet which also includes being gluten free), It may be additives (including food dyes) or preservatives, and it could be sulfites or salyclates. I'd highly reccommend changing diet to something more compliant with the candida diet, and slowly reintroducing things, and seeing if things are or are not improving.

Scheduling during the day - set wake up/nap and food times... and set bed time with rules that are strict.

It could also be that your LO is not expending all the energy that they need to, and by night time they're running full throttle and refusing sleep. We've had that issue, and sometimes it takes holding them still for 5-15 minutes and they pop off like a light after a great fuss.

I know with my brother, his ADD/ADHD actions were chalked up to sugar and complex sugar issues. His pancreas was turning sugars into alcohol.
My Brother in law has issues with red food dye and some additives - he acts like a crazy person when he has it, and is a real bear to be around -- too ADD for me to handle. It's no longer "Hi how are you, oh look! a squirrel!" it's "Oh hi, wait, whas, and over there , and hi and oh you're still here?!"


If you think it might be gluten and/or casein, I know of two blogs ( here and here) that deal with that diet. I don't know of any that are specifically vegan or vegetarian in nature, but I am sure there are some out there.

I'm having to convince my husband to go on a candida diet. He has off and on eczema and "yeast issues", is overweight and hyperactive. There's a history of diabetes and his mom is afraid he's tipping towards type 2 diabetes... what he doesn't know is that means diet change too, and it can be LOTS more restrictive than what we're talking about reducing and then reintroducing. He just called me on his lunch break and was being really rude to me about it being a yeast issue and how I can't be right, so he wants to see his doctor for the 4 tests that need be run.. I can't be right, but the doc can. I've history with food issues for most my life, so I recognise things pretty quickly.

I hope you guys are able to get this resolved rather quickly and painlessly for you all
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